055: all the tomorrows after & the books we see ourselves in | feeling "too much" with jazzle
This week, we're joined by Jazzle (@jazzlesbooks), a pre-K teacher, mom, and “emotional book translator” who unpacks not just what books are about, but why they make us feel the way they do.
Jazzle shares the origins behind her bookstagram, including how postpartum cracked her open, how books became an outlet, and why she finally stopped being ashamed of feeling "too much."
Nins & Arns then get into Joanne Yi's All the Tomorrows After (handpicked by Jazzle herself!), a novel about a Korean American teenager grappling with abandonment, grief, and how to stay soft when life gives us every reason to harden. Jazzle reveals why this novel is "her whole identity", the way abandonment (and the people who stayed) shaped her, and how to tend to her inner child who's still healing.
In this episode:
Jazzle's postpartum journey & the origin of @jazzlesbooks
books as a tool for healing & self-discovery
All the Tomorrows After by Joanne Yi
abandonment, family, & the inner child
Asian American & first-generation family dynamics
learning to understand our parents as complicated humans
staying soft after being hurt
finding home, hope, & love in unexpected places
Content warning: abandonment, parental estrangement, grief, death, depression, emotional abuse, and difficult family dynamics. Full spoiler discussion for All the Tomorrows After.
Chapters:
0:00 - Preview
1:51 - About Jazzle, emotional book translator
5:57 - Welcome, Jazzle!
8:34 - The story behind @jazzlesbooks: Jazzle's sob story
18:36 - All the Tomorrows After: Part 1 (Nins)
39:02 - Why this book is so personal to Jazzle
46:03 - All the Tomorrows After: Part 2 (Arns)
1:07:53 - Feelings of abandonment & inner child healing
1:16:53 - Final thoughts, where to find Jazzle, & Jazzle's cry rec
Referenced in this episode:
Jazzle's bookstagram: @jazzlesbooks
All The Tomorrows After by Joanne Yi (@writingjojo)
"Why YA Deserves a Chance" by Joanne Yi for She Writes Magazine
Jazzle's custom embroidery business: @lil.kikos
Jazzle's non-book cry rec: From Scratch on Netflix
-
Speaker: 00:00
Turns out that the same sensitivity that I was told to tone down my whole life is the exact thing that lets me sit with a book and say, I see what that did to you, and you're not too much for feeling it. As you get older, you understand they're humans too. It's like, yeah. Yeah, I get it, but like, yeah.
Speaker 1: 00:19
What do we say to dads who walk out on us? Go fuck yourself.
Speaker 3: 00:24
My girl is a straight-up carpenter. She is, she's Jesus Christ. Sorry, a lot of Catholic references.
Speaker 5: 00:35
We're feeling religious today. u
Speaker 4: 00:39
This is BRB Crying.
Speaker 5: 00:52
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to BRB Crying. I'm Arns. And I'm Nins.
Speaker 2: 00:58
And guess what? What? We just cried our eyes out so that we can yap your ears off. Ladies and gentlemen, love it. Welcome to our podcast where the two of us cry and tell you why that was so.
Speaker 5: 01:15
If you're new here, welcome. If you're old here, welcome back. Really quick before we get into this, follow us on socials @brbcrying.podcast, leave us a review. Tell us how much you love us. Write to us. We love hearing from you. Did you hear that? She said write us a review.
Speaker 2: 01:31
Write us a review and we'll give you a free sticker. If you're not gonna do that, just go. I I don't want to deal.
Speaker 5: 01:37
Just kidding. Don't go. Don't go. Sticker free yours. All you gotta do is write us that review on Apple.
Speaker 6: 01:43
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 5: 01:44
And Spotify. Okay. Um now we're gonna get into what we have ready for you today. Today
Speaker 5: 01:51
we have a super, super special guest. We're so excited to have her on. But before we bring her on here, we're gonna talk a little bit about her, hype her up to you. Gotta gas her up. Gas her up. So you're gonna be like, oh my god, I can't wait to see her.
unknown: 02:05
God cannot wait.
Speaker 5: 02:06
So today, our special guest. Let me talk about how she reached out to us. If you recall, episode 53, we had our little wellness event. This was the first time we were vendors at an event in real life. And that was so cool because afterwards, so many people found us. And one of those people was I almost said her name. Our guest.
Speaker 3: 02:32
And so if her name isn't plastered all over our socials and our episode description. Whatever. It's up until this point, it's still a secret to you.
Speaker 5: 02:42
Our guest found us and she DM'd us, and she said how much she connected with us and how she's so happy she found us and how she would love to be a guest on our podcast. Come to find out, I see that we have we have a mutual friend. And who is that? Crybabies, my sister. So I say I screenshot it, sent it to my sister. Who is this? And how do you know her? She's so cool. Tell me everything. And my sister goes, Oh my god, she was my kid's preschool teacher. And she was the best preschool teacher, and they loved her so much. And I was like, holy shit. So Kismet brought her to us, and Kismet for us confirmed that the vibes were there.
Speaker 3: 03:31
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 5: 03:32
It checked out. Yes.
Speaker 2: 03:34
So today, if you haven't read every single post that we've posted about this already or the episode description, you're just so loyal that you just decided to press play without even blind. Yeah. Just come in blind. Um, you will see that we are going to be having this wonderful discussion with Jazzle.
unknown: 03:53
Yay!
Speaker 2: 03:54
Jazzel is a book influencer. Yes. Of sorts. Of sorts. Yes. Because when she reached out to us, we took we took a little gander in her little IG page. Um flourishing IG page. And um we saw that she covers books. But she doesn't just cover books that she recommends to people. She gets into the heart of the books that she reads. What moves her about them, what emotions the storyline and its characters bring forth in its audience, and why we should care about that. Which, for those of you that have been listening to our little pod here, a little aligned. A little aligned. Just a little bit though.
Speaker 5: 04:42
So, yes, I'm so excited to get into our discussion with her today. Yes. And so, so a little bit of context. This is how Jazzle describes herself: I am a pre-K teacher, mom, and emotional book translator who doesn't just review books. I unpack why they hit the way they do. My purpose is to help people, especially the ones who think they feel too much. Too much. Not possible, not possible. Realize that's not a liability. It's the whole point. My page is for anyone who's ever finished a book and needed to sit in silence for 10 minutes after. Us. Anyone who's cried over fiction and wondered what that says about them. Also us. And anyone ready to feel a little too much on purpose. Oh my god, I get chills when I read this because this is us, guys. This is us. This is us. So she ends with Somewhere on my shelf is the book that'll make you say the thing you've been avoiding. All right. Should we do it? All right. Ladies and gentlemen, cry babies, near and far. We are pleased to welcome Jazzle.
Speaker 5: 05:57
Hello, Jazzle, and welcome to BRB Crying. Hi.
Speaker 2: 06:01
Thank you for having me. Welcome, Jazzle. We're so excited to have you. And thank you for finding us. I I forgot to mention this in the intro, but I was reading through our email threads planning this episode. And one of the first things that you wrote in that first outreach to us was something like when I found your page, it just felt like a room that I was meant to be in. Yes. And not like already tugged at my heartstrings. Because honestly, the things that we are both tackling in our different realms of the internet just feel again so aligned. We are all here to feel our feelings, whether that's through random conversations with your best friend or by digging into your next favorite book. So I'm just so happy that you reached out to us and that we can we can just bring our communities together.
Speaker: 06:53
Yes. I'm just so excited. I think I was really excited to see people that were doing exactly the same thing that I was doing because I think we're in a vulnerability epidemic. And I feel like everybody wants to be together, but everybody is afraid to let out their feelings. And I think it takes courage to do so. And the world wants to let their feelings out, but they're not the kindest sometimes to people that are emotional. But somebody has to do it in order for it to be together. So I just felt like when I saw you guys, I said, I needed to be together and we needed to do something like this.
Speaker 5: 07:41
So I'm so happy you reached out. I I think it takes a special kind of person to one, witness yourself and someone else, and then two, do something about it. That is really brave. Yeah. It is really brave to like to just cold message someone and be like, hey, I connect with you. Do you connect with me? Like it's a really cool position to be in. So we always ask our guests to come prepared with a little sob story. It could be an origin story, how they came to be doing what they're doing, or it could be just something that made them cry that they want to share. So we have no idea. We have no idea what Jazzle has prepared here today. So we are just as surprised as you are. But if you're if you're feeling ready, we would love to hear from you. Okay.
Speaker: 08:31
Um, so I'm
Speaker: 08:34
gonna read off of this because I'm feeling I memorize my story every so that's like the biggest lie.
Speaker 3: 08:45
Um okay I guess you can read it. That's fine.
Speaker: 08:50
Okay. As you know, I'm a pre-K teacher, but I grew up in a home that was really difficult. And books were the one place that I could go where somebody else's pain made sense of my own. I wasn't looking for an escape. I was looking for proof that what I was feeling had a vessel or had a shape, or it had been felt before. And that I wasn't the only kid sitting with something really big for her body. As cliche as it sounds, it's it's a feeling that you weren't alone, you know? Like any reader, you go in and out of reading, but then I became a mom, and postpartum cracked me open in a way that I was not prepared for. I am an eldest daughter who had spent my whole life being the strong one, and the one who really didn't need anything. And suddenly I was drowning and I needed an anchor. I forgot books for a second, because if you've ever been in the trenches, you can't think. No, and when I looked at my bookshelf, I got emotional because I couldn't read, because it's in the middle of the night. I'm gonna wake up my daughter. And I found audiobooks, and thank God I did, because that was the only thing that I could reach. And again, books saved me. A character that was feeling what I couldn't say out loud, and I could cry the tears that I couldn't let out because of all of the postpartum feelings. I felt like I was just holding it in because I had somebody that had to take care of, and books were my outlet. I spent so many years that thinking feeling this deeply was a liability. I've always felt so much. I was too sensitive and I was too affected by things. And I learned to shrink that part of myself everywhere, except inside a book. I've always made myself small, cut sentences short, and noticed people's behavior based on how they received my feelings. I needed an outlet because even when I found friends, I could talk about books with that feeling too much always nagged on me, and I don't want to be a bother to anyone to let all of these feelings out. And then one day I just started talking about it, not necessarily reviewing it, not summarizing the plot, but just saying what a book did to me and why, and people responded, you know, and they've been waiting something their whole lives to somebody just to say it first. And that's how I ended up here. I didn't build a book Instagram just to be a creator, I build it to finally stop feeling ashamed of the thing that saved me. Turns out that the same sensitivity that I was told to tone down my whole life is the exact thing that lets me sit with a book or with you and say, I see what that did to you, and you're not too much for feeling it. And I hope one day I get to sit next to the authors who wrote these books that save me and help even more people to feel less alone in what they're carrying. So yeah, I've been crying for years. I just finally started doing it out loud.
unknown: 12:46
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: 12:53
So many of the words that you just said, I was like, where is the retweet button? Thank you, Jazzle, for opening up so beautifully. I'm so excited to jump into this because you are hitting the exact uh points that me and Arns are trying to do on this podcast. I think that for so many of us, feeling big emotions and wanting to just openly display that has been something that has been embarrassing or has been what we think is shameful. And what we're finding out with this podcast, and I'm sure you are too, with your with your Instagram page, is that actually it's the opposite. People respond to it so genuinely because they're seeing you be so genuine about it. And um yeah, I'm just so happy that books have allowed you to tap into that part of yourself. Because so often it's such a habit that we build very young to just shut off that side of ourselves that when we're actually faced with the task and we're actually trying to start our healing journeys, it's like there's that wall that's built that we can't even like face our own traumas or we can't even face our own wounds. So we turn to books and stories so that as we feel for these characters, it's a little bit easier. It's a little less scary. So as we mourn for them, as we grieve for them, as we celebrate with them, it's like really what we're doing is mourning, grieving, and celebrating ourselves. It's just a little bit, a little bit of that protective realm that we that we do that through. So I love the concept of your page. I I just love the community that you're building. And I'm so happy that books has allowed you to find yourself again. And when you said, you know, you used to make yourself so small and you used to cut your sentences short. Girl, you made like you made yourself known to us. And like, look how much you've already grown. How long have you had your page?
Speaker: 15:09
I mean, I've had it for fun for about two years, and I just started taking it seriously on February. And look at you. Oh my God. I know. I told myself that I owe myself one year to try really hard. And for once I said, I was like, I think I'm meant to do something, and I'm gonna believe in myself for once. Yeah. And I cannot do that if I do not put my best foot forward. But it is so hard with a full-time job. Oh, yeah. 100%. But yeah. But we're doing it. We're doing it. Yeah.
Speaker 5: 15:49
So beautifully too. And I love that I I I feel so much of what you're saying and how it's like something cracked you open when you were postpartum because there is something about that where you I don't know what it is. I don't even think I have the words for it. The way it lay Can't look at you. The way it lays you bare and it makes you question every single thing about yourself. If not for that part of my journey, I would not have come to want to start this podcast. So I get that. I understand how you feel.
Speaker: 16:31
Yeah, I still remember to this day. I was putting my daughter to sleep, and I was just silently bawling my eyes out because I was like, uh there has to be something better than this. Like there has to be something. Like, I this cannot be my life. And to be feeling that way and to hold your daughter at the same time, you just feel the most horrible mother. Because like you're supposed to love this, and I do, like, but it's just like yeah, but I needed something to pull me down. Yeah, yeah. And it's like you don't want to love it at the expense of losing yourself.
Speaker 2: 17:10
Exactly. Right. So yeah.
Speaker 5: 17:13
I think I can see why you chose this book for us. Exactly.
Speaker 2: 17:17
I was just gonna say, I feel like there are so many more things that we could ask you about so that we and our listeners can understand you more. But, Cry Babies, I think we have an amazing episode planned because instead of us just sitting here doing a little QA with Jazzel, we are going to just dig into her soul. Yes, instead by covering a book that she recommended for us. Yes. So Arns and I read this book that Jazzle described as, quote, the one that is my whole identity. We were like, yep. So that erased all of the interviewing homework I had to do. I was like, bet, I'll just read this book and I'll know everything about her. Yep. Um, but so that's what we're gonna do today. So we are gonna cover the book. I'm gonna cover the first half. Arns will cover the latter half, and then we'll we'll do a little, we'll do a little kiki afterwards, and we'll we'll sit with it and we'll hear more about why exactly Jazel resonated so heavily with this book. Yep. So here I go. Let's fucking do it. Okay, all right.
Speaker 2: 18:37
So as we've already established, Jazzel is not just any book content creator. Her niche lies in explaining the feelings behind a book. In her words, she is an emotional book translator. Which already I love because I was like, wait, is she saying she herself is emotional when it comes to book translations? Or does she translate emotional books? I didn't think about that. The answer is yes. Both. Both. Nice. So best be leave. I was so excited to see what sort of painful shit she was going to recommend we read and cover on the pod today. When we were planning the episode with Jazzel and we asked her what book she had in mind, she actually gave us two options, but slyly didn't reveal the titles or authors. I love that you did that, by the way. That was Yeah. She just gave very brief descriptions and let us pick. And I I we mentioned this in the intro, but the first one was the one that is my whole identity. Parentheses, I will cry on the spot, guaranteed. And the second one read, the one that carried me through postpartum. It's motherhood, marriage, my relationship with my parent, and survival all in one. Now cry babies. I know what you're thinking. Um, they both sound fucking incredible. How are you ever going to pick? I know. But after some twiddling of thumbs, Arns and I realize that the whole point of welcoming guests onto our show is to learn about them. And what better way than by reading a book that our guest says is her whole identity. So, crybabies, today we will be covering the 2025 young adult novel All the Tomorrow's After by Joanne Yi. Don't hold your breath though, because you know what we do on the show. Context for an hour and a half, okay? I want to first highlight the author, Joanne Yee. At the back of the book, you know how they always have that, about the author. And it's like a picture and then two sentences. So Joanne Yeads Joanne Yee grew up in Orange County, California, and currently resides in Los Angeles. She graduated from the University of California, San Diego, and holds an MFA in creative writing from Antioch University. When she's not writing, she enjoys baking, horror films, Korean dramas, and spicy food, and then her socials, which we will link in the episode description. So, you know, you read this and you go, okay, cool. So cow girly, likes quirky things, got it. And putting this story together, I was like, oh man, I props won't be able to find much more about her because she's a relatively up-and-coming author. Boy, was I wrong. Because I found this incredible feature Joanne wrote for She Writes magazine entitled Why YA Deserves a Chance. Please, please read this article. It'll be linked in our show notes. It's so beautifully worded and provides such a great foundation for this novel. But just to briefly summarize, Joanne shares her personal. History with young adult fiction and her stubborn refusal to part with these stories that still provide her solace decades later. There's like this little joke where her mother was like, Should we donate your like half-torn books on your shelf? And she was like, Don't you ever fucking even suggest that ever fucking again? It's a great read. Quote, even now, I don't believe a distinct boundary separates adolescence and adulthood. Nobody wakes one morning fully realized. I imagine we are in continual emergence, accumulations of every moment we have lived. I'm already crying. We haven't even read the book yet. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Okay. So later on in this article, she defends YA fiction and laments that kind of bad rep that it gets. Arns and I have talked about this before, this reflex to dismiss anything involving teenage feelings as frivolous or unserious or uncomplicated when it is anything but our feelings during teenagehood are felt so intensely, and Joanne Yi recognizes how important it is to one, allow a younger audience to feel seen and provide hope for all the life left ahead of them, and two, serve as a guide for reconnecting with their younger selves. So no matter what age you are, stop being a fucking asshole dismissing YA thick, okay? Because I promise you, a book like this one that we are about to cover will absolutely leave its mark. Okay. So All the Tomorrow's After by Joanne Yi is a story about a teenage girl named Winter Moon, a Korean-American teenager living in Southern California. She is a senior in high school, but the things that plague her everyday life are far from the typical teenage experience. Winter does not give a fuck about getting her driver's license or finding the perfect promt desk or applying for college. No. Winter spends every waking moment fucking hustling. Yep. My girl. My girl. She is fervently trying to save up money. She works at this really shitty Korean cafe with this super rude boss. She completes homework assignments for other students in her high school. Every dollar she earns is safely tucked away, all in the hopes that once Winter graduates from high school, she can leave behind this fuck-ass life. Yep. Winter has it pretty rough. We learn that Winter's father left her and her mom, Sunny, when Winter was just a young child. Embittered by this abandonment, Sunny has never learned to heal, resulting in her becoming a real shit mom to Winter. The only saving grace in Winter's life is her Halmany, which means grandmother in Korean. Halmony is the only person in this world that has ever shown winter love. All three of them, her, Halmany, and Sunny, live together in this cramped, stuffy apartment just trying to make ends meet. But when Halmany suffers a stroke and loses the ability to take care of herself, Winter, at 17 years old, takes on the responsibility of being her grandmother's main caretaker. While her mom literally just like fucks around. She's like the worst. The worst, yeah. Like Sunny works, the mom works, but like, you know, always comes home with like this shit attitude and like demands to be treated with reverence, even though she does nothing to deserve it. Yeah. Et cetera, et cetera. She's awful. She's awful. Yeah. And Winter knows that this type of environment does no good in helping Halmany find her strength again. Which is why Winter becomes so obsessed at the thought of saving money so that she and Halmany can escape this sad existence and experience what the world has to offer. You see that Winter dreams of traveling the world and seeing all these different places and bringing Halmany with her. But we are still very much in the middle of senior year. Winter can't leave just yet. She has to keep saving after all. So we see scenes of Winter's everyday life, her going to school, her going to work, and in all these little snippets, we see how all of these circumstances have really toughened Winter's persona. Unhappy at home and obsessed with the thought of escape, Winter comes off as dismissive with her peers, unwilling to engage in friendships and means of connection. Big, like, ugh, this is lame energy. And when she's at school, there's like this frantic, desperate energy that she has, just so consumed at the thought of trying to make money so she can dip. It is honestly it's heartbreaking to watch this child, this girl carry so many heavy responsibilities. One day, Winter and her mother get into a terrible fight over how to best care for Halmany. And of course, things escalate. And Sunny, her mom, says, So what if I complain? Haven't I been through enough? I came to America to be someone and look at me now. Her voice spikes. Now she is all shadow and steel. Everything about her is hard. Her dark eyes, her jaw, the set of her lips. I gave up everything to raise you. I deserve it. I deserve it. Her favorite words. She loves to throw them in my face. She loves to drown in her bitterness and take me down with her. And this is why I think the fifth commandment, honor your father and mother, needs an asterisk. Okay? Yes.
Speaker 1: 28:44
On top of all of this, Winter is now being occasionally stalked by this quote, expensive white woman.
Speaker 2: 28:50
I love the word she used. I love that. This woman is named Helena, and she is looking for Winter with this urgent request. Helena is Winter's dad's wife. And she is letting Winter know that her dad wants to meet her. Surprise. Surprise.
Speaker 1: 29:13
What do we say to dads who walk out on us? Go fuck yourself. Yep. The words were on my lips. I was good. Yeah. Sorry. Should have given you guys an opportunity.
Speaker 2: 29:28
But Helena is insistent. She shows up to Winter's job at this awful cafe again, requesting that Winter meet her father. Helena is so desperate. She's like, Winter, we will literally pay you to see him. Please. Long story short, Winter goes off on Helena and she gets fired from her job. And just because Winter's life has been too much of a breeze at this point, on that same night, Winter comes home to find that all of her savings, all $4,267.55, are gone. Mystery solved when Winter's mom comes home that night with like fucking steak and lobster leftovers and this fucking ugly ass leather jacket.
Speaker 1: 30:23
Sorry. This was the worst scene. This was the worst scene in the book. This was so hard to read. I was like, this is actually interesting. I was screaming.
Speaker 2: 30:32
It was crazy. What the fuck is this? Right? Again, fifth commandment, shut the fuck up. Shut the ball. Don't want to hear it. No. Miss me with that, you know? Okay. So with all of Winter's money gone, Winter has no choice but to swallow her pride and take Helena up on her offer. She agrees to meet her father, this stranger that she has virtually no memories of, other than a few small postcards from some of her birthdays. So, begrudgingly, after an icy first encounter, Winter enters into an agreement with her father, Sung. In exchange for $500 a week, she will spend two hours with him once a week for the next six months. I did the math for you. That's $12,000 for 48 hours. Ooh. Give me that kind of contract. Where do I sign? You know? Through these sessions, we learn more about what happened to Sung after he walked away from Winter and her mom Sunny. We learn that Sung and Sunny met in college, found out they were pregnant, tried to make it work for a little while, but with all of the fighting, Sung knew they just weren't meant to be. He tells Winter that he thought he was doing the right thing for Winter by not letting her grow up to watch her parents hate one another. But deep down, he confesses that hidden behind those noble intentions was really just selfishness on his own part. Sung wanted to go to grad school to study architecture, to see the world and travel. He came from a good family. He had money to spend and dreams to fulfill, and he didn't want to be tied down to this life he didn't want. So he chose to run. Which, hmm, sounds like someone we know.
Speaker 6: 32:42
Hmm.
Speaker 2: 32:44
Curious. Eventually, Sung meets Helena in grad school, they get married, and they have a 12-year-old daughter named Avery, who Winter realizes is her half-sister. And Sung lives this pretty, wonderful life in this gorgeous home with this expensive white wife and beautiful half-Asian daughter. Yes, Winter is still angry and defensive during their first few sessions, and she rightfully so put Sung in his place for walking out on her so many years ago. But slowly, over time, she realizes the truth behind Halmany's words from a few years back before her stroke. Quote, he was like a son to me, your father, she said then, stroking my hair. Sometimes I can't help but hate him too, for leaving like he did. But try to remember, no one is completely bad or completely good. We are all morally gray. So for the rest of my story, I am actually going to pause on the storyline between Winter and her father. I'm sure Arnt, you're gonna cover the fuck out of it in your segment. Because I want to end my segment today focusing on a scene that kind of messed me up. And it was actually one involving Winter's mom, Sonny, aka the worst person alive. A few months into Winter spending time with this kind of pseudo-new family of hers, Winter gets some devastating news because, again, it's too chipper over here. It's been way too much fun. What's the catch? What's the catch? We find out that Halmany passes away. Stricken with grief, Winter gets into yet another fight with her mom when she finds out that Sunny is getting rid of all of Halmany's things. This leads Winter to basically hoard what's left of her grandmother. She takes all of these boxes, she puts them in her small tiny room, and spends the evening digging through all of Halmany's possessions. She finds a few old photographs, quote, a blurry selfie of Halmany and me. We're off center and I'm caught mid-blink, but her smile is huge and genuine. My toddler self, clutching a waffle cone with both hands, chocolate painted all over my chin. Me on a couch in a room, I don't know, snuggling with a stuffed dragon, me in Minnie Mouse ears, ripping open a bag of candy. Young Sunny, her head thrown back in laughter. Sunny giving me a piggyback ride. Sunny brushing my hair. Sunny and me bent over a book. I try to reconcile this version of her with the one currently in the other room. The unfeeling one selling her mother's belongings, who steals and slaps, fires insults like bullets, but they don't add up. Up until this point, there is nothing even remotely redeemable about Sunny. This girl can fuck herself, okay? She has not shown an ounce of kindness in her character to anyone, not even her own daughter, not even to her own mother that has just passed away. But seeing these glimpses into Sunny's and winter's past, these moments of happiness and tenderness reminds the reader that people are not born full of hatred. We all want to experience joy and love and belonging in our lifetime, but sometimes circumstances rob us from being able to create it for ourselves. Sunny is a heartbreakingly complex character in this story. We don't like her, we don't know if she's worth Winter's forgiveness, but we can understand what led to the bitterness that now consumes her. Basically, towards the end of this novel, Winter and Sunny have somewhat of a reconciliation of sorts, and in this conversation, we get the most insight into Sunny's thoughts. I tried, Winter. I really did. But after your dad left, I had to reevaluate my entire life. All I wanted was to find myself again. I wanted something for me, just me. But I never had a minute alone. I would get in the car and you would hop in too. I would plan a hike with a friend, and you would insist on tagging along. You always followed me around, no matter what I was doing, where I was going. Because I was a kid, says Winter. That's what kids do. I was a kid too, Winter, her eyes plead with me. I think in many ways had Winter kept going down this path of closing herself off to the world, feeling that she is the victim, and feeling that there is no hope for her, there is such a good chance she could have ended up just like Sunny, broken, hateful, and desperately lost. We all know that the plight of an Asian American daughter is to break generational traumas one day at a time. So I will hand it off to Arns to show us how this cold winter does so by turning her face towards the sung.
Speaker 5: 38:53
I know Ninz wanted to hand it off to me, but I'm sure Jazzel has feelings. She has thoughts.
Speaker: 39:00
Has thoughts and feelings. Um
Speaker: 39:02
Well, I was really scared to give this book to you guys. I almost didn't want to recommend it, honestly, because first it is about me that's very vulnerable. I read this a long time ago, and I have never really shared it to anybody. And I've shared it to my friends, and I said, This is really me and stuff. And usually when I have something that really affected me, I like go to their throat and like, here, read this. Like, you know. But this one was really personal. And I think part of that was because it's YA. And a lot of people like she said, it has a bad rep. You know? And because it was so personal to me, I didn't want to hear the fact that it's, you know, I don't want to read it.
Speaker 2: 39:54
Or yeah. I totally hear what you mean. It's like when you care about something so intensely, it's like you can't even bear to hear any criticism from someone you love. Yeah. I totally hear what you're saying.
Speaker: 40:08
And like usually I live for feedback for books. This is kind of the reason why I love people when they say, like, oh, I didn't really like that book or something like that. But this book, for some reason, I just I didn't want them to turn it away just because it was YA. And I really love that article. And and I've actually reached out to her because of it. And like I've explained to her how much this book meant to me. And I was like, I need some way to let it out. And I was like, might as well go balls deep, like to you guys. Like, might as well go beautiful imagery. We are the balls. But yeah. Um, so the book itself, like, I think you hit it quite right. I think Winter is a very negative Nancy. As she should, in a sense, I don't necessarily relate to her as an individual, like I'm kind of like her in a sense. And I think I'll explain later why. Yeah. But I feel like I have a more positive outlook in life. Yeah, sunnier. Yes. But yeah. I'm not sunny. Poor choice of words. But um, I think I feel like I relate to her experiences, but I do relate to how she was trying to get away to her upbringing. Yeah. I think I lived in San Diego, and all I tried to do was study hard so I can get accepted to any university that is far away. And then that's how I kind of just settled here in Bay, and I just took root and never left. So I completely just related to that aspect. And I feel like her relationship with her mom is very complex, and it's the same thing with my mom. And again, I'll explain a little bit of that later, but it's not that I didn't know my mom didn't love me and never showed me love and affection. She did. It's that I can count more days where I brace myself coming home and bracing her reactions than were days I actually got love. And it was almost like love was conditional because them bringing me here was unconditional, like from the Philippines. And that already ran out. So therefore, I have to work now for their love. Earn it. So that's how I was seeing her relationship with her mom. Because my dad left me too. And it was all like all my love ran out. Like, yeah. And it was tough because I had two brothers and seeing them get the unconditional love. I've never had bad love seeing that, I think, as an eldest. But it's tough. Especially when I became a mom. It's like I cannot imagine it. Like I cannot. It does not compute in my head. And it's hard when you said like you understand it. Like as you get older, you understand they're humans too. It's like
Speaker 6: 44:00
Yeah, I get it, but like Yeah.
Speaker 2: 44:03
Yes. Yes. Yeah. What seems like such an automatic for us, it frustrates you that it's not an automatic response for them, right? You have this daughter that I'm sure you love with your every fiber in you, and you can never imagine treating her the way that you felt as a kid. I just feel like when you are on your healing journey, you have to accept that people are not at the same place that you are. People cannot see beyond their own victimhood. And they make really poor choices and they really hurt you along the way. And there's there's no but, you know, it's just it's shitty.
Speaker: 44:48
Yeah. It's shitty. I get it. And I mean, th thank you, therapist. I love you. I was not here. Therapist, dude. But I I see, you know, I see my mom as a human because now I make mistakes with my daughter. It's just she's still healing. The little girl in me, she's still healing. So she will be. She goes in and out of like accepting and not accepting. And books like these is just like tugging a little heart.
Speaker 5: 45:17
So thank you for that. Thank you for being willing to share that too. I know that it's not easy to feel and let alone share with the world, but I guarantee you there is someone out there listening who needs to hear what you're sharing. So thank you.
Speaker 6: 45:40
Yes. Thank you.
Speaker 5: 45:43
All right.
Speaker 1: 45:45
Let's keep this happy train rolling. It's a fun time, by the way. Did we mention for our comedy podcasts? I'm in the right one.
Speaker 5: 46:02
All right.
Speaker 5: 46:03
This is interesting. I had no idea what Ninz was going to share for her context. I have stuff here that will not make it sad.
Speaker 2: 46:11
I would say this is really like, I don't want to do a Google shared file because I don't want her to see what I'm writing, but also good luck to her.
Speaker 1: 46:19
Yeah, this is going to be uh a little bit. I basically told Arns, I was like, I'm going to stop at this scene. Yeah. So carry on the rest. Yeah.
Speaker 5: 46:28
I should have asked you who you were and were not going to talk about because she kind of NIST, they were like entire characters she didn't mention.
Speaker 3: 46:36
But well, I'm going to get into it. Welcome back. I don't provide context. Just keep going. I'm just going to say their names and I'm going to talk about them, like expecting you to look it up yourself.
Speaker: 46:46
Oh, I guess. Yeah.
Speaker 5: 46:48
Many people Nins did not mention. That's fine. That's fine. We'll we'll make okay. So uh welcome everyone to part two of All the Tomorrow's After by Joanne Yi. As Nin so beautifully covered in the first half, I said these exact words. Winter has had it rough, but shit's about to get a little rougher. I can't we one brain cell. One brain cell. All right. So I think you mentioned that Winter has a deal to go visit Soong's house weekly. So as Winter does her weekly visit to Soong's house as part of their deal, and he invites her into his workshop. Her dad is rebuilding a coffee table that he found at a garage sale, and he asks Winter if she wants to help. And okay. Point number one, Ninz did not mention my girl is a straight-up carpenter.
Speaker 3: 47:38
She is she's Jesus Christ. She is a single. She is a lot of Catholic references. We're feeling religious today.
Speaker 5: 47:50
So um there's like so much I have to add. Mental note, we are never doing this again. Um we do it every episode. Um Winter is doing a woodworking class at school, and she's excellent at it. There you go. So she and Sung are working in tandem on this little project. She actually knows what she's doing. And she sees Sung struggling to maneuver his equipment, and she admits to him that I know about your diagnosis. I don't did you mention this at all?
Speaker 1: 48:23
Nope, nope, didn't cover this at all. So throughout the novel, the most important plot of this book, I didn't cover the plot.
Speaker 3: 48:31
Okay. My God, this is crazy.
Speaker 5: 48:34
Um, so throughout the first half of the novel, we see that Sung is losing a lot of his motor skills. It's subtle at first, but it's more and more obvious. Also earlier in the novel, Nins did not mention this, but Winter ran into her stepsister, Avery, who accidentally let it slip that all these signs of physical deterioration are because Sung has ALS. So this changes things because suddenly Winter no longer has forever to hate her dad. So we see her soften ever so slightly. And at the end of their little woodworking session, Winter admits to herself, that was kind of fun. And fun fact, I looked, I was reading this on Libby, I searched for the word fun. She did not use that word in this context until this moment. So just a little tidbit. Okay. This line is crazy because shortly, this is what I wrote. Shortly after we're brought to Valentine's Day with Joon. Y'all. Surprise! Surprise. There's a love interest that's been building throughout the whole first half of the novel. God damn it. I forgot about that. Okay, okay. So what context do I need to say here? Uh, there is a guy who Winter is beginning to open up to. Okay. June is my God. Okay. Joon is mourning the first anniversary of his own mother's death. So he is telling Winter about how his mom used to secretly bring him to these K-pop auditions. And now that she's gone, becoming a trainee is out of the picture. He's with his dad only, and his dad wants him to be a doctor. So what's the point? He asks Winter. And she sees that there was an application he was actually going to fill out. He's taken demo videos of himself singing, dancing, and everything, and he just hasn't submitted it. So when he asks that question of Winter, what's the point? She reflects. When someone you love is undeniably on your side, nothing else matters. You tow the waters, even dive headfirst into the deep end, confident that you won't drown. So Winter takes his laptop, she fills out the application for him. All he has to do is click submit. This part is entirely up to you, I say, but I think I think you deserve a chance. So what I love about this, and why I have to bring up June, even though Nims has thought that he did not deserve a mention up until this point, is that we see just how much Winter's heart has opened up in this scene. She was so closed off to the world, to everyone except Halmoni. And now here she is stepping into the role of cheerleader. She is that person who is undeniably on someone else's side. And we have never seen this of her before because she has been so closed off to anything and everything. So love you, June. Okay. God, this is crazy.
Speaker 2: 51:44
Good luck in your K-pop audition. Yeah, good luck. Um my bias. I know.
Speaker 5: 51:50
I was like Jungkook.
Speaker 2: 51:52
I know.
Speaker 5: 51:53
Okay. The joke was right there. The joke was there. Come on. All right. So Winter starts to open up to her dad a little bit more, especially now that they have these little wordworking sessions, they can connect in this low pressure way. And I was thinking about how, you know, it's easier to talk to someone when you don't have to look them in the eye when you're like doing something. And soon even starts to show Winter photos of his travels when he was younger. But what starts out as this tentative point of connection very quickly turns into tension because all Winter can think is while he was out dilemmaing across the world, I was a four-year-old girl wondering if he'd ever come back. And we feel the same tension while they go out to Korean barbecue together for this meal. She says she wants a specific cut of meat, and Sung is like, Oh, you always did ask for that. And Winter doesn't know how to feel about it. She says, he does this still, casually chucks out memories long gone. One time you cried when you saw a dead bee on the ground. You know, you always did like making things. When you were two, you threw a tantrum because I wouldn't let you drink my coffee. It's confusing. I can't tell if he's proud of himself for remembering or if he's trying to recover who I used to be and who I am now. And I want to commend the author, Joanny, here, because she does this so beautifully throughout Winter's story. She weaves in these questions and she brings in all these complex feelings. I know, Ninz, you mentioned this. Winter is asking, like, what does this mean? How am I supposed to feel? Where do we go from here? But she doesn't actually answer the questions. And that's fucking life, dude. Like, it really is like that sometimes. You don't always know the answer. Sometimes you're just full of questions. All right. Spoiler warning: I'm gonna ruin the book. So if you don't want to know, read it and then come back. Okay. So Soung and his family invite Winter and June. Shout out June. Shout out June to their annual camping stream. Love you, June.
Speaker 2: 53:50
Bias.
Speaker 5: 53:53
It is so tense between Helena and Sung because Helena is trying to act all cheery, even though she's clearly so stressed about Sung, because again, he is deteriorating rapidly. And she's like making them bring the wheelchair, and and Soung in turn is frustrated that he can't even go on a walk on his own. But Winter decides to accompany him, push his wheelchair along, and he convinces Winter to wheel him up to his favorite tree. And then he falls out of his wheelchair. Q utter panic from Winter. And with this panic comes a rage. Quote, I can't look at his sad, flattened hair any longer. Why is he sick? Why is he dying? If I had to live for years without him, shouldn't I be given a future with him? There's no balance in this equation. He should be here for decades to come. I'm losing him before I even had him. In this moment alone, just the two of them, Soon opens up about leaving Winter. How miserable he and Sunny were, how he tried to get them to all move as a family so he could go to architecture school, and how when Sunny refused, Soon convinced himself that staying was worse than leaving. And as much as it hurts, because the bottom line is he still abandoned her, Winter gets it. Soong chose himself, traveled the world, studied what he always dreamt of, and made the most of his life. How many times had Winter herself dreamt of leaving behind her own miserable life? Travel the world. So after this wheelchair incident, Winter actually finds herself having fun. It's kind of strange. Again, fun. But the spell is quickly broken because later that night, while Winter and June are cuddling for the first time, shout out June.
Speaker 4: 55:41
Should have a count. Lock in that K-pop star quick, girly. Before the masses want him. Oh my god. Okay.
Speaker 5: 55:49
Okay, so while they are quote unquote cuddling, soon disappears. And in the morning, it is mayhem when they find out he's gone. Because after they meet with the police, because they're convinced, like, oh, he, you know, he got abducted, and they're like, ma'am, he's a grown man. His belongings are gone. He left a note. He clearly ran away. So this is the moment where it kind of feels like one step forward, two steps back, because Winter is kind of back to square one, like angry, lost, confused, distracted at work, pushes June away. There's one day where she and June are out for a meal and he starts kind of bombarding her, like, I think we should go search every hospice in SoCal that specializes in ALS care. And he's even willing to forego his K-pop audition, his trainee audition to help her. But Winter can't have him stop living his life for her sake. So she breaks it off with him. I also hate when this happens, you know, where they have to like, they have to say like some fuck ass shit like it wasn't ever real. Like things that are clearly not true. Just go. Yeah, just go, leave. And that's like because they have to make the other person the worst. The worst. And then on top of this, Winter is trying to reach out to Helena. Helena is not answering, which is crazy. Helena is always so quick to answer. So she bikes all the way over there, wants to check up on them. And Helena is so closed off. Again, uncharacteristic. Turns out she blames Winter. This was hard to.
Speaker 2: 57:24
This was hard to read. This was hard to read.
Speaker 5: 57:28
And it hurts more because Helena has been so much the opposite of this. Had been such a safe space for Winter. Exactly. And now she's like, she doesn't even want to say it. And Winter's like, okay, just fucking say it. And Helena's like, maybe if you weren't fooling around with your boyfriend, your dad wouldn't have been able to sneak away.
Speaker 2: 57:44
And it's like, fuck you, Helena. I know, I know.
Speaker: 57:49
But that moment felt like it was my I have a stepdad. And it felt like when something is happening to house, it felt like teams. And I was just like, oh, well, it comes down to this loyalty. Like you're showing niceness. And then when it comes down to it, it's like Yeah.
Speaker 2: 58:10
Yeah. You know, that part really hurt, but in thinking about it now, I'm remembering the quote that I had pulled in my section where Helmoni said, not everyone is either good or bad. And I think that you are led to believe that Helena is such a good character. Here is a woman that has everything together who has built a really beautiful family. And even she snaps. Even she has these moments of weakness. I think that's what this was showing. But it doesn't make tart any less. Yeah.
Speaker 5: 58:39
And but the thing is, it's like you wonder how she was even fucking holding it all together for this long. I mean, we all have to break at some point.
Speaker: 58:48
Yeah.
Speaker 1: 58:49
So also, so what the heck? You're just gonna leave. Oh yeah.
Speaker: 58:54
Yes. Again. Yes, again. I was so mad. I was like, I was so upset. I almost didn't want to finish the book.
Speaker 5: 59:02
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: 59:03
Like I was like, quit that. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5: 59:06
Yeah. But again, one step forward, two steps back, we start to see glimpses of the old winter who blames herself, who shrinks away, who turns in on herself, and she can't handle it anymore. So she goes to a fucking party with her friend Melody. K Mel. Mesty. Melody is nasty so much throughout this book. Ninz, zero fucks. Melody, you can go to hell, I guess. I guess you can go to hell. Melody, really quick summary. Was Winter's childhood best friend. Went to high school. They drifted apart. Now Melody is making a resurgence in Winter's life, and she is one of those pillars of someone who comes back. They go to a party. You know what? I'm just gonna get straight to it. They're in a car, the driver swerves, and Winter wakes up in the hospital.
Speaker 2: 59:58
By the way, this is right after her fight with Helena. This book has the drama of One Tree Hill, okay? It's great. Yeah. This is why you read YA.
Speaker 5: 01:00:08
Mm-hmm. So when she comes to, she's in a hospital. And guess who is by her bed? Helena. And here I want to draw the glaringly obvious parallel between Winter's stepmom, Helena, and her own biological mother, Sunny. Because even though Helena and Winter had just gotten into this fight, even though Helena actually has no real obligation to Winter, she genuinely cares about her and she needs Winter to know. So she apologizes. Helena says, families fight, but they also make up and move on. I'm gonna show up for you just like I show up for Avery, if you'll let me. And even though she doesn't speak these exact words, what she's really saying is whether or not Sung is here, we are still family if you want to be. And an apology starts to spill out of winter too. Like, I'm sorry for what I said. I messed up, I keep messing up, I don't know how to fix it. And Helena says, Oh honey. Helena begins to stroke my hair. We'll figure it out. For the first time, I'm not averse to her calling me honey. I'm not averse to her cool hand on my forehead. It stays as she tells me again and a third time. We'll figure it out. It stays as I inhale her familiar floral scent and plunge back into sleep. Safety.
Speaker: 01:01:33
Yeah. It reminds me of that scene with Melody. Who? Who's that? Um, with Melody's mom. When Melody brought up her mom missing winter, and she said, I want to know what it's like to have a mother meet me with love and affection. And I feel like that was exactly the same thing. It's like unfamiliar.
Speaker 7: 01:01:58
Yes.
Speaker: 01:01:59
And I got chills with both scene because I just imagine her going like this. So Oh, this is what it's like. This is what it's like.
Speaker 5: 01:02:09
Yeah. Yeah. So eventually we discover that June, shout out June. June was right. Her dad was indeed living at uh an assisted living facility. That's where he snuck away to in the middle of the night. So naturally, Winter, Helena, and Avery go and find him. It turns out he was just so acutely aware of the burden he was placing on his family by simply existing in this deteriorated state. So just like 14 years ago, when he left Winter, he convinced himself that everyone he loves, his wife, his two daughters, would be better off if he just disappeared. But when the girls arrive at Sung's apartment, Helena is rightfully so fucking pissed. How could you think this was better? And Avery, my girl, she's 12. She has no words. Her dad left her. Her dad, who was with her her whole childhood, who has never left her before, fully, fully left her. So Winter walks in, not because she's brave, but because she's already lost so much time with her dad that she can't afford to lose anymore. Two months he was gone. So what does she do? She grabs her bag, she empties it onto his bed, and she starts showing everything to Soong. Postcards he sent her from all over the world. A photo of her first day of kindergarten, a photo of her on her sixth birthday. Everything Soong missed. Remnants of Winter's childhood without him. All the thoughts, the feelings come tumbling out of her. Even a thank you comes out. But working on that table with you made me realize I might be worth something too. I never thanked you for that, for everything. Welcoming me into your home, despite Soung begins to cry as I speak. The tears roll off his chin and soak into the books. I keep going louder, faster against the spasm in my throat. I didn't know how much I missed being part of something. All the normal everyday things like watching TV together, having someone ask me if I'm hungry, feeling seen and wanted. Thank you. It must have been hard for you to leave and hard for you to stay. Maybe you couldn't recognize yourself anymore. I'll never really understand, and I'm sorry. He lets out an abrupt, guttural sob. For a long time, the only sound is him crying. I sit there, surrounded by my history, which rests within his history. I am not a wordsmith, and I am not a doctor, and I am not a wizard. I am not very smart, and I am not very kind. I am only me and I am riddled with lack. There is too much I don't know, but I want to learn. And this right now I can do. Be here with my dad for as long as he'll let me. As heartbreaking as this all is, and as helpless and as confused Winter feels, at the end of this novel, Winter has somehow found peace. She doesn't know what her future looks like with her dad. She might not even fully grasp what their past has been. But what she knows is that he has shaped her. They are forever intertwined. Her history, which rests within his history. And while it would have been easier to have never rekindled the relationship with her dad, for him to waste away without her even knowing, Winter deserved to make that decision for herself. To choose whether she wanted to reopen that wound and dig beneath the surface. And when she did, it was so worth it. So much of this novel centers around the motif of leaving, both physically and emotionally, leaving and being left behind. Winter's dad leaves twice. Halmoni, who is her one constant source of safety and love, leaves when she departs this. Earthly realm, Sunny emotionally abandons her. And Winter wants nothing more than to escape the hellhole that is her life. But as much as we think this novel is about leaving, maybe it's about staying and what we find when we do stay. There's so much to unpack in this novel. Clearly, there are people we don't think are worth mentioning. But if there is one thing I hope we can take away from this story, it's that as tempting as it is to let the pain harden us, we have to stay soft. It is always worth it to stay soft, to live bravely, our hearts wide open, at risk of getting hurt, yes, but also ready to receive love in whatever way it finds us, ready to find home in the most unexpected of places. Trusting that no matter what storms we weather, we will always, always find our way. So thank you again, Jazzel. For choosing this cry wreck. I cried, I ugly cried multiple times. Um, and for giving us a chance to learn more about you and all the ways you see yourself in the story. And thank you, Joanne Yi, for writing this novel and for weaving your own experiences into winter stories so that we might find some sort of comfort in it.
Speaker: 01:07:22
That was a really good way to summarize the book, you guys.
Speaker 2: 01:07:26
Thanks. Thanks. I was really complete in my first half, clearly.
Speaker: 01:07:31
No, you did a really good job. You guys both did a really good job. I think you guys highlighted the best parts. So I mean, yes, melody and all that stuff, but I think See, she she also forgot June. See June. Like, I think I wouldn't have been able to summarize it that way. So and I think I'm just too close to it. But I
Speaker: 01:07:53
like when you say it's about staying, because I think that's always a whisper in my head when I was reading it. But background story. My dad had left me when I was one year old. To this day, I don't know really much the story. But my mom left me in the Philippines to get a better life for me when I was seven. We we didn't like see each other, like live together again when I was 13. So that is a very And that's when you moved here. Yeah. Okay. That is a very like a lot of developmental like for a child. Yeah. And the person that stayed with me was my grandpa. And he gave up his job to stay with me so my mom could work to get better life. And I understand that that was for us, truly. And I think to the Lord, to whoever, that I was given a better life because of that. But until I read this book, I'm still laughing. I did not know I had abandonment issues. Yeah. You're sitting in therapy, like, wait, who are you talking to? Me? I was like, I was talking to my therapist. I was like, I was reading this book, and I I think I think I I got abandoned. Oh yeah. But the thing is, in my head, I was paralleling it with my mom was abandoning me. Like what was more important was money, like in my child self. Even though I'm old now, I know better. But like my inner child doesn't know that, and she's still healing. My grandpa stayed because and I mattered more. And then when I got here in the United States, there was snow like sweetness and on that. And when she was looking at the family pictures winter in the book, and she was saying, Wow, you have a daughter. Oh I threw that book across the room. Yeah. Cause I was like, Yeah, what made it so worth it? Like knowing also I had four other brothers. Yeah. I was like, what made me not worth it? Like and all this life, like even when I came here, I was like, what is it about me? Like, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2: 01:10:24
But that's the thing, is that when you're a child, you think it's something that you did or it's it's you not being enough. I hope that as you've gotten older and you go on this journey of yours, you realize it had nothing to do with you. Yeah. Had nothing to do with you. Some people, again, just can't see beyond their own hurt to love healthy.
Speaker: 01:10:50
It's because of this book that I really dove into my, like more of my, I guess you would say, trauma about my childhood. And that's why I spread a lot of things about books because I got to know so many things about myself. It became a tool in your healing. Yeah. Um, I want to share why I chose this book. That's okay. Honestly, it's not really about the book. It's about my dad. I've never met him like I shared. Reading this, I actually let myself imagine it. Like, what if he was dying right now? Would I go? And I sat with that question longer than I expected to. I thought I already knew to answer, but I didn't. Everyone in that house that I grew up to catered to my mom. I had food, I had clothes, I went to good school. So I never thought I was allowed to call it hard. But the truth is nobody was really looking at me. I didn't have anyone standing up for me the way the stepmom in the book stood up for herself. And because of that, I think I grew up not really knowing how to trust people or how to love in and out of relationships, never sure how to do any of it right. Because nobody ever showed me what it actually looked like. Except my grandpa. He's not a perfect person. He's morally gray. He's made his own mistakes with other people too, but with me, he showed me love. He's the reason I'm not more bitter than I am. Without him, I don't think the kindness in me would be as loud. And that's actually why the question about my dad is so hard for me. Because I already know one flawed person can still show up and love you right. I lived that with my grandpa. So what does it mean that my dad didn't? And what would it mean if I never even gave him the chance to try? I chose this book because it's a such a very niche book that if I felt seen, I hope somebody who's listening here could feel seen too.
Speaker 2: 01:13:11
First off, I just want to say thank you so much, Jasil, for being so open. And I think this book, you're right, is your identity. I feel like when I was reading this story, Winter's Story, I felt like I understood you so much more. And I, you know, we hadn't even had this conversation yet. But one of the things that I took away from this book is that people are always going to be dealing with their own problems. And sometimes they'll respond really negatively towards the world, or sometimes they'll find a way to push through. But the fact that Winter and you still clung to this hope that maybe the world can show you and her a little bit of kindness, and to see that play out in the way that it does is such a beautiful thing. Like the thing that breaks my heart about Sunny is that she lost that hope. There was no seeing any more goodness in the world, and therefore her life just reflected that. But Winter, she still allowed her heart to open up. You, Jazzel, you never stopped that from happening. And this life that you've built for yourself has shown you what it can offer. Yeah.
Speaker: 01:14:33
I think in general, we're all carrying shit. You know? And all we can do is be kind to ourselves. And it will pass on. Yeah.
unknown: 01:14:48
Wow.
Speaker: 01:14:49
What a book. Yeah.
Speaker 2: 01:14:51
You actually did not even cover the scene that made me cry. Oh, which one? And of course I was reading it in public. I think I was like in line somewhere when the scene hit. But basically, there's a point where I can't even remember if she had found Sung yet, but she was rummaging through Sung's things and she found the notebook that Sung had tucked away. Oh God. That scene fucked me up. So she reads, she reads his diary, essentially, and she realizes that Sung had written a bucket list of things that he wanted to do now that winter was back in his life. And it was these beautiful things, like, oh, I want to take her out to Kate Barbecue. I want to take her on vacation with us. And of course, like the last one was like the last one was I want to walk her down the aisle. And it's heartbreaking because you know that time is slipping through their fingers. Yeah. We don't know if that bucket list will ever be completed. But God let them hope and dream it would, you know.
Speaker: 01:15:57
I imagine myself, what would I do if I found a list like that if my dad? I told myself I can't imagine it because I felt like I can't live with a disappointment if it doesn't exist. But at the same time, I have a list of my own. Like I wish like this and that and that, even though I have so much like he would say like bitterness. There's still that little girl that's just like that still hopes. Yeah.
Speaker 2: 01:16:28
And sometimes the plight of first generation children is that maybe we'll never get our wish, but our children will never ever have to write the same wishes.
Speaker 5: 01:16:41
Yep. Yep. Yep. Sometimes that's the only source of comfort that can come from this. Yeah. And you are doing it.
Speaker 2: 01:16:52
Yeah.
Speaker 2: 01:16:54
Wow. Great book. I knew it would fuck me up. Yeah. I knew it.
Speaker: 01:16:57
I'm so happy because, as I said, I was terrified. And then they're gonna be like, I fucking hated it.
Speaker 5: 01:17:04
No, my God. I'm just that's the beauty. No, but that's the beauty of I feel this podcast. And I think I'm sure what you do too. Like there's always a story that's worth telling, and there's always something that we can take away from it, right?
Speaker 2: 01:17:15
So, but yes, thank you so much, Jazzel, for sharing a little bit of your story and then sharing your entire soul with us through this book recommendation. That is what we yeah, exactly.
Speaker: 01:17:29
It is part of you. So you have to share it. True, true, true. It's out there in the ether. Yes. And I'm happy that you guys are the vessel for this. So thank you. You're honored to be that vessel. Thank you for being the safe space. And I feel like I made the right choice.
Speaker 2: 01:17:45
Yeah.
Speaker: 01:17:46
This is for sure a room you were meant to be in. Thank you. So where can everyone find you? Um, I am on Instagram. My handle is at Jazzels Books. I am slightly on YouTube. Oh, ooh, no. Um at Jazzles Books. But my husband and I also have a business, as I said. Yeah. We are at little.kikos. We are an embroidery business. It's a custom embroidery, and you can DM us anytime. You can do just one sweater or you can do a production show. She's wearing one of those sweaters. Oh, yes, read it, read it, read it. I said, feeling too much isn't dramatic. It's your qualifications. It's literally my tagline. Yes. And then I have a few events. Yes. Or just one coming up. Um, September 27th. I'm going to have my very first book event. I'm hosting an audiobook picnic. Oh my gosh. And I will show more details starting next week. But yeah, you bring your own audiobook and then we go for a cute little walk, and then we'll have a little picnic, and then we'll have a little drink. And yeah, it'll be a cute time. Bay Area Book Release. You heard it here first? Yes. Area book goddies.
Speaker 5: 01:19:13
Cool. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. I know we've had our technical difficulties, but we are we're here and you have shared so beautifully, and we are so honored to have witnessed it.
Speaker 1: 01:19:25
Yeah.
Speaker 2: 01:19:25
Thank you so much for having me. Okay. Well, we always ask our guests on the podcast for a quick cry recommendation. And we like to make it a little bit more challenging. So we like asking our guests to pick a cry wreck that is outside their usual repertoire. So is there anything that you would like our crybabies to look into?
Speaker: 01:19:49
So because most of my time is spent on books, this was a really, really hard thing to do. I was like, huh, what movie did make me cry? Oh, that's based on a book. Like I don't think that's acceptable. Yeah. So I thought about this short series on Netflix. It's called From Scratch. Okay. It's about this girl who moved to Italy because she wants to be an artist, and then she meets a guy, and they kind of get together, and it's their story of how they fall in love and how they build a life, and then they move back to the United States and how that is hard to navigate. From first episode, I ball my eyes out. Okay. Noted. It's only, I think, six or eight episodes. Okay. So it's very it's a very, very short series.
Speaker 2: 01:20:53
Great.
Speaker 5: 01:20:53
Okay. Thank you for that. We'll add it to the list. And one more thing. Yes. A gift for you. Thank you. Yay. Yes, we just gifted her. If you're not watching us, sorry. We gave her a hat, as we do all our guests. So thank you again so much.
Speaker 2: 01:21:11
Thank you. All right. Well, this wraps up our episode for today. We hope you enjoyed listening to our stories. We hope you enjoyed learning more about Jazzel and what she's doing on her cozy corner of the internet. And uh, if you like what we're doing here, please, please, please reach out to us. Let us know if there's any cry recommendations that you have for us or if there's any ideas that you would like to collab with us on. Our DMs are always open. Yeah. That is all we got for now. That's all we got. So we are gonna head out. We'll see you next time. Yep. But until then, brb crying.
Until next time…brb crying :’)