056: why ariana grande is a mirror for our healing | eternal sunshine, pov, & petal

Written By nins & arns

If you're not already an Arianator, you sure as hell are about to be—because this week, we're crying over Miss Ariana Grande. 

From a childhood destined for stardom to her rise as a global pop star, Ariana's life has been rife with grief, loss, trauma, public scrutiny, heartbreak...and through it all, healing. 

As Ariana Grande's #1 fan, Nins kicks us off by reciting Ariana's entire biography from memory, laying the 33-year context for her Eternal Sunshine Tour. Nins then breaks down the show's cinematic interludes, exploring why Ariana would choose to live with her pain rather than erase her past, and how doing so honors her inner child.

Arns—a much more casual fan—reflects on Ariana Grande’s positions album and why “pov” makes her ugly cry (hint: loving ourselves is harder than it seems!). She then gets into Ariana's newest album petal and “nowhere, nobody,” examining Ariana's artistry through the lens of her own journey toward self-love. 

A mirror for our own experiences, Ariana Grande shows us that while healing may be daunting, choosing to show up for ourselves is always, always worth it.

Content warning: discussion of terrorism/mass casualty, death, grief, drug addiction and overdose, mental health, eating disorder speculation, and public scrutiny.

  • 0:00 - preview

  • 3:31 - introducing our ariana grande episode (+ outfits)

  • 6:33 - why ariana grande is nins’ “super bowl”

  • 9:44 - ari's childhood & becoming a performer

  • 12:13 - from nickelodeon to pop star

  • 15:19 - fame, controversy, & growing up in public

  • 22:53 - manchester, mac miller, & surviving grief

  • 39:50 - cozy during covid, wicked scandal, & beginning to heal

  • 44:55 - eternal sunshine tour & ari’s inner child

  • 54:05 - arns: “pov” & learning to love yourself

  • 1:04:32 - petal, “nowhere, nobody,” & coming home to yourself

  • 1:14:21 - ariana grande is a mirror for our healing journey

Referenced in this episode:

  • And I was like, oh, she has an album now? Wait, this is kind of a nice song. Hooked.

    She is publicly crying. Mid-song, mid-interview. She cannot keep it together.

    When I think about the healing journey not ever being finished, it can be a little overwhelming. It's scary and it's daunting, and it makes you just want to throw in the towel and get it. Exactly. And that's why it's so beautiful when you don't.

    I've spent the last almost 20 years with one person. Weird. Yes, so weird. You wouldn't know what it's like.

    We're like on only 16 years. Yes. These next four get ready.

    I’m Trying to tell a story here. You already talked for an hour and a half. Let me have my moment.

    Speaker 3: 00:42

    This is BRB Crying.

    Speaker 1: 00:54

    Hello, everyone, and welcome to BRB Crying. I'm Arns. And I'm Nins.

    Speaker 3: 01:00

    And today the two of us have several tears left to cry. Ooh. Did you get my pun? Hint hint. Welcome to our podcast where the two of us break down our last cry and tell you all about it. We're excited to have you. Excited to get into our tears and some laughs.

    Speaker 1: 01:25

    Maybe some bops. I don't know. Probably. If you're new here, welcome. If you're old here, welcome back, crybaby. Love to have you. Really quick, we're just gonna plug ourselves as we always do. As we should always be doing every second of the day. Just an indie pod looking to rise the ranks. With your help. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, a written review, send us a little screenshot, and you will get a free sticker.

    Speaker 3: 01:55

    Dang it. I already wrote a review on my own podcast, so I can't get a free sticker. That's okay.

    Speaker 1: 02:01

    But you can. You can. I'll live vicariously through you. And if you haven't followed us already, we are at babycrying.podcast on all socials. Short and sweet intro. Mm-hmm. A sweetener intro. Here we go, y'all. Here we fucking go. How are you? I'm doing wonderful. Nice.

    Speaker 3: 02:23

    I feel I feel great. I'm a little nervous. I feel like it's a big episode for me. So uh, you know, we'll just see how it goes.

    unknown: 02:33

    Okay.

    Speaker 1: 02:34

    Yeah. How about you? I'm good. I, as of this recording, I just celebrated my anniversary. Happy Annie. Thanks. We went up the coast a little south of Mendocino. Like a two-day trip. Cute. No child. Really? Yeah. It was stunning. Rugged. Yeah. Coastline. Oh, yeah. By the fire. Oh man. Beautiful. Great. Love that. Still basking in it. Love that.

    Speaker 3: 03:02

    I did also go out of town this past weekend. Yes, you did. I was in Napa for a college friend's wedding. Just super beautiful. Like obviously a beautiful venue, but like just beautiful to be surrounded with a bunch of people that made those four years magical. Yeah, it was a good time. Yeah. Love all around. Love all around. Yeah. Love actually. Love.

    Speaker 1: 03:29

    All right. Okay. Well.

    Speaker 1: 03:31

    Do you want to do the honors of introducing what we're fucking doing today? You know what? I would normally say yes. Okay.

    Speaker 3: 03:37

    I'm about to talk your ear off for an hour plus, at least. So I'll actually give you the honor of explaining.

    Speaker 1: 03:45

    I'm going to keep it short and sweet. Yeah. Today we're talking about Ariana Grande. Nins uh, she's Ariana Grande's number one fan, as we all know. Uh she's been dying to talk about Ariana Grande. I mean, she already does it all the time. I do all the time, but formally.

    Speaker 3: 03:58

    So formally, formally, yes. Today we will have an Ariana Grande themed episode for our faithful crybabies. You will have known during our Olivia Rodrigo episode that I had attended the Ariana Grande concert literally the night before we had recorded the Olivia Rodrigo episode. And I had mentioned that I definitely, definitely, definitely was gonna talk about my experience attending her Eternal Sunshine Tour, day two in Oakland. Um and so today is that day. And Miss Grande just released her pedal album. And I thought, you know what? Why don't I put ours up to the test and I'm gonna make her pick something.

    Speaker 1: 04:38

    God, you guys. It was fucking, oh, she was like, We're gonna do this Ariana Grande episode, and you're gonna talk about this. And I was like, okay. It was a question. I said, what if we? And I said yes. I said yes.

    Speaker 3: 04:51

    Should we talk quickly about our outfits? Hell yeah. So today I am dressed as Miss Ariana Grande from her That Boy Is Mine music video. We got the we got the black dress, we got the white buttoned-down collared shirt underneath. We have the black leggings, we have like a classic, not too overdone ponytail. And we're wearing glasses today. Love it. Because she wore glasses in the music video. So obviously, I'm gonna wear my glasses today. Obviously. If there's a glare from the lights, too bad. She just shines so brightly. Don't say that I get really paranoid about like the oil on my face.

    Speaker 1: 05:32

    Okay, your turn. You look stunning. Thank you. I am dressed as Ariana Grande from Positions. We got a little 1960s chiffon going on. This is my grandma's vintage dress from the 60s. Um little cat eye. Mm-hmm. So yeah. Beautiful. Thanks. Stunning. You too. Thank you. We're just over here emulating. We yeah.

    Speaker 3: 05:55

    I don't think you and I ever talked about what we were gonna wear. Absolutely not. But you know we were gonna fucking dress up. Are you kidding? I know. You know what though? You know what's crazy? I feel like I was so nervous about like putting my story together. I actually did not give any thought to my outfit until this morning. Oh, okay. And then I just did a quick, like, Pinterest Ariana Grande outfit search. And I was like, wait, I have all of these already. So here we are. Yeah. Here we go. Here we fucking go. Kick us off. All right. You

    Speaker 3: 06:33

    guys, today is my Super Bowl. I have not already mentioned. If you have listened to half of an episode, then you will have heard me mention how much I absolutely love Ariana Grande, which is very important to me. Okay. So, like I mentioned, I'm a little nervous. I'm a little overwhelmed. I opened up this document and I was like, where where the f where do I even start? What do I do? What do I, what do I say? But as I mentioned before, I will just reveal that for my story today, we will be going over the biography of Miss Ariana Grande. We are gonna get into it from the very, very beginning because the cry I want to focus on is actually from when I saw her again at her Eternal Sunshine tour back in May. And to understand why I cried, well, I cried throughout. I was crying the whole night. But there were very specific scenes that were played during her show that really hit me hard. But you have to know her life for it to hit. So that's what we're gonna do today. Um I have a ton of sources, but first and foremost, the number one source, my heart. Okay. I literally I'm literally just brimming with knowledge about her that I was like, do I even need to I just know this in my soul. I'm an RE scholar. Okay. But I did reference a few things. Um, two of them being the biography on Ariana Grande and biography.com, and then Ariana Grande's artist profile on the Grammys website. And several more sources that I will mention as we get through my story. Okay. As I mentioned, there is a lot to cover. And it's gonna be a lot of disclaimers for the story, but I think first and foremost, yes, I am a huge Ariana Grande fan. I have loved her for more than a decade now. I think that the story and the things that we talk about, first and foremost, please look at all of our trigger warnings on this episode description because there are a lot of things that we talk about that are very heavy, very dark. Um and as much as I love her, I can also recognize that she is not a perfect person. And this podcast has never been intended to dissect and speculate and feed into the rumor mill or any sort of hate train. We've always tried to tell our stories from a really empathetic place, and that's exactly what we're gonna do here. But also being mindful that people make mistakes, people aren't perfect, and people are constantly growing and learning. So I'm just gonna put that up front. So a lot to cover today. She just turned 33. I gotta cover 33 years of her life. You mean we're all 33 at this moment? We're literally all the same age. Like we're the same. Okay.

    Speaker 3: 09:44

    I thought, what better way to keep us on track than by dividing the story into her many different eras? Okay. So we'll start off with childhood era. Miss Ariana Grande Butera, born on June 26th, 1993. Cancer Sun, Libra Moon, Capricorn Rising. Mm-hmm. What does this mean? For all of my astrology noobs. Deeply sensitive and intuitive, a natural social butterfly, with intense ambition and aspirations. Astrology, again, science again. Born and raised in Boca Raton, Florida, Ari grew up in a very privileged area. Her mother, the CEO of some it's like some ocean equipment thing, and her dad, the owner of like a graphic design studio thing, wealthy. Okay. She was born into money. Her soul's contract was to be a superstar. So the resources, they were gonna be there. Okay. So at a young age, Ari is already showing a natural talent for singing. She's enrolled in a children's theater and she falls in love with performing and being on stage. She becomes kind of this local celebrity in Florida, invited to sing the anthem and a bunch of sports games. Sorry, there's like this article of like her attending some like professional hockey game. And like she was on the newspaper as like a little kid because the hockey like hit her in the face, but then she like got on the cover of the newspaper and she's like holding the fuck.

    Speaker: 11:34

    Oh my god.

    Speaker 3: 11:35

    Like it's just like she was born to be like the center of attention. Yes. Okay. Um, she gets the lead role in the musical Annie at her local children's theater. She gets a stint as like a singer on a cruise ship at age nine and performs. Like she like sings with this orchestra on this cruise line for how long? I don't know, like her summer stint. I don't know. She then goes on Broadway in the musical 13. Obviously, again, like I just said, this is her destiny. So she moves to LA in 2007 at like 14

    Speaker 3: 12:13

    and thus begins her Nickelodeon era. So from 2008 to 2012, Ariana Grande starred in the show Victorious. Do you ever watch Victorious? Bitches in my fucking story, dude. Really? Yeah. Okay, okay. Oh yeah. Okay. I can't say that I watched Victorious, actually. Because again, I was so grown at that age. You were just so mature. And like the older sister was like, dude, that's so dumb. Why are you watching that? Yeah. So sorry. Um, but Victorious focused on teens attending a performing arts high school. Ari played Kat Valentine, who is this kind of ditzy, naive, baby voiced character. Super popular show. Not for me though, because too cool. God forbid. Too cool. You know, I was watching Pretty Little Liars, but that's a whole that's a whole other thing. Are we? Maybe another episode. Crying because it went on too long. We really should do an episode. Okay. Sorry, pretty little liars, you caught the stray. So sorry. Okay. After four seasons, Victorious is canceled, but Ariana Grande has already set the foundation for Teen Stardom. And as a favorite at the network, she has offered her own show, a spin-off called Sam and Cat, alongside Jeanette McCurdy from iCarly. But as we all know, Ari's heart yearns for music. She wants to be a singer. This whole Nickelodeon stint, this was like her side hustle. Okay. This was her version of my summer job at Jomba Juice. Okay. Nickelodeon. Jomba Juice, sponsor us. All right. So now we enter honeymoon era. For those that listen to my Justin Bieber story, you'll see some similarities here. But while Ariana was on Victorious, she had a cutie little YouTube account. Oh Snap, it's Ari. It was spelled ITZ. So cute. And on her account, she would upload covers of her singing. Just like straight up recorded on her MacBook Photo Booth. Hell yeah. Pressed play. Mm-hmm. Exported. Upload. You know what I mean? We don't need to do too much more than that. And yet, they were viral videos. Yeah. You know? When it's your destiny, it's just like easy. You know? Yeah. So these videos eventually got the attention of one Mr. Scooter Braun. Scooter Braun, as we know, is a talent manager at the time. And he became Ariana Grande's longtime manager, up until like very recently, like maybe last year or so. But it was under his management that Ari becomes a star. Okay.

    Speaker 3: 15:19

    She's 20 years old at the time. She comes on the scene with this half-updo kind of vintage 50s doo-wop look to her. This is actually when I first became a fan of hers, by the way. I still remember the day when Lou, who was still my boyfriend at the time, we were like in his car and then he like played this song called Honeymoon Avenue. And I was like, oh, she has an album now? Like, because I knew of her from Victorious, but I didn't really like follow her. And I was like, wait, this is kind of a nice song. Hooked. Thank you to the love of my life for introducing me to the love of my life. So this song, Honeymoon Avenue, was the very first track of her 2013 debut album, Yours Truly. Like, imagine that setting the stage of your musical career. And the first single of this debut album is a song called The Way, featuring Mac Miller. I do know that one. Mm-hmm. Uh-uh-uh. Okay. I'm going to have to like refrain. And now we've now transitioned into And I'm just going to do a little cover. Imagine if we have the mics. Imagine if that was really like, and you just had to sit there watch me. She's an instant star. Uh-huh. Her album debuts as number one, and applying the tried and true Scooter Braun formula, she is then paraded around at promotional event after promotional event. Good morning, America, filming music videos, appearances on talk shows, going on award shows. She's everywhere. Full-blown pop star. Okay. It's around this time, shortly after like her introduction kind of subsides, that we get her first controversy. We have Donut Gate. Do you remember Donut Gate? Which very quickly, she's caught on CC TV footage licking donuts on display at a donut shop and utters that she hates America.

    Speaker 1: 17:23

    That was a great video. I remember when I watched it. I was like, yeah, I fucking hate America too. What the fuck? She was ahead of her time.

    Speaker 3: 17:29

    I was like, what's the big deal?

    Speaker: 17:31

    She's saying the truth. Sorry.

    Speaker 3: 17:34

    I only I only bring this up, first, iconic, okay, but like also like obviously the reaction from the public absolutely like destroyed her. Ungrateful, privileged, snobby, like hates America, you know, just like I only bring this up because I think this was her first real taste into how easily public opinion of her can sway in an absolute instant. And this was the first of many, many struggles that she has had to face when it came to her relationship to fame. Stardom young, you know? Mm-hmm. Because me personally, I've never done anything dumb at 20. Oh my God. Angel, you know? Yeah. Okay. Shortly afterwards, she releases her second album, My Everything. I see her in concert for the first time. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah, in 2015 during the honeymoon tour. Okay. Loved it. I bought merch. I bought this shirt that's literally just a black tea. And all of it. Why aren't you wearing it? Because hello. It was just like this small little black tea, and it just says, love me harder on it. And I've been rocking that tea for the last 11 years all over. Okay. What do you mean? Both. Okay. It's a great tea. It was a test. Okay. So during this My Everything era, I think she was still very much trying to figure out her sound and like find like her musical signature. This album was weirdly a lot of collabs. Scooter was like, just get her on a song with anyone. I literally don't fucking care. She was like with Azalea, like big shot. And it was also weirdly EDM-ish. Like a sign of the times, definitely. But give it a shot. It's just, it didn't feel like super authentic. It felt like she was obviously doing what her management team was telling her to do. But then we enter dangerous woman era. The vibe is femme fatale. Okay. I also want to give a huge fucking shout out to La Roche stylist for his partnership with Ariana Grande at this time. Because when you think pop star global sensation, Ariana Grande, what do you think of? You're thinking thigh-high platinum boots, little flowy mini skirt, a cute little bralette, and the biggest fucking ponytail you have ever seen. And that image was due to the styling genius of La Roche. He elevated Ariana Grande from a singer to an icon. Oof. That's how you know you've made it. If people are coming in and dressed as you and you can immediately identify, oh, she's dressed like Ariana Grande. Yep. Who's doing it like that? You know? So it's also around this time in 2016 where Ari and Mac Miller make their relationship public. As we mentioned, Mac or Malcolm, his real name, was her co-collaborator on that very first single. And since then, the two stayed really, really good friends. Apparently, during that time, Malcolm and her worked on a lot of music together. And she later credits him for really encouraging her to find what her true sound was. And she knew she always loved RB, but didn't know how to make that her own. And I think Mac was a real big influence on her to pursue that. One thing leads to another, and they find themselves in love. There's obviously a million edits of them together on TikTok. And of course, I watch them when I feel like hurting. You know, when you're just like, I'm in the mood to like feel pain. Yeah. And so you look up Ariane Mack edits, see all these like cute little pictures of them together. I'll just mention these few quotes and lines. In a 2017 interview, Ariana Grande did for time. Magazine, she says of Mac, we have loved and adored and respected each other since the beginning. And in a song they put together entitled My Favorite Part, Mac sings, The universe couldn't keep us apart. Why would it even try? Before things come together, they have to fall apart. It's been a while since I've been sober. This life can be so hard. I'd rather talk about you. So pop star icon status cemented, okay? Loving relationship, publicly adored, top-selling records, beautiful, funny, magnetic, talented, just the world at her fingertips, okay? And now on her dangerous woman worldwide tour. So

    Speaker 3: 22:53

    I know I had already mentioned our major trigger warnings in the beginning. We are about to get really, really dark here. I also want to be so very mindful in how I share this part of Ariana Grande's story. This is absolutely not meant to be told through an entertainment lens. Again, this is someone's real life, and some parts of it are horrifying. And I think that if we can all practice empathy and kindness, it may better shape our understanding of these celebrities' humanity underneath the fame. So on May 22nd, 2017, in Manchester, England, a suicide bomber detonated an explosive at the end of Ariana Grande's concert. And this event killed 22 souls and injured over a thousand. I cannot, I cannot even wrap my head. Like thinking about what it must have felt like to be in that audience and being so terrified at the state of the world and like feeling that your safety is always going to be compromised. I can't fathom what the families of those that died felt, the fellow concert goers that have to live with these terrible memories. And I can't imagine what Ariana felt. That night, Ariana Grande tweeted, broken, from the bottom of my heart, I am so, so sorry. I have no words.

    Speaker 2: 24:29

    Neither do I. It was horrible. I I just can't. Yeah.

    Speaker 3: 24:34

    2017, she was 24. At this point, I want to share a clip from a podcast interview that Scooter Braun did in 2018 on Big Questions with Cal Fussman. And in this clip, he talks about the immediate response following the tragedy and how Ariana and her team chose to act in the wake of all of that grief and fear. So it's about a four-minute clip, and of course, we'll link this in the show notes.

    Speaker 2: 25:14

    Okay.

    Speaker 3: 25:15

    So I just played that four-ish-minute clip for Arns. And in this interview, Scooter talks about the immediate aftermath following the attack on that Ariana Grande concert. He said, understandably, Ariana wanted to cancel the whole tour, and they were fully prepared and ready to do that. Quote, I can never sing these songs again. I can't put on these costumes. Are you crazy? And eventually, after they had both landed back in LA from Manchester, Scooter explains that he checked his phone and had several different messages from Ariana Grande. And basically she was telling him that she's second-guessing canceling the show. She's like, I I think that if I allow this to stop me from performing, then I'm not who I say I am. And with that, with her permission, Scooter then proposed the idea of, okay, well, let's take two weeks off and then let's put on this massive free benefit concert back in Manchester. After I think two days of debating this, Ariana Grande agrees. And on June 4th, 2017, Ariana Grande holds a free benefit concert called One Love Manchester. It was streamed on every platform. It was free for the attendees, and over 66,000 people show up. And that night they raise over 2.3 million pounds for the families of the victims. I'm going to show you one very brief clip from that concert. It was not just her performing. There were like a lot of other celebrities. I think Miley Cyrus was there, Mac was there, and they obviously did a lot to honor the city of Manchester. And so, in this one particular clip that I'm about to show you, it is a children's choir performing her song, My Everything.

    Speaker 2: 27:29

    So I am going to play that. Gorgeous performance.

    Speaker 3: 27:48

    It's beautiful. It's so moving. And she puts her arms around one of the girls that has that solo. And everyone's crying. You can tell that Ariana's voice is kind of shaking. And that was basically what the whole night was. Like, yes, like she performed her hits, but I think everyone was so viscerally aware of what brought them there and just wanting so badly to hold on to this love and unity that music can bring. And, you know, obviously honoring all the victims of this crazy tragedy. I don't think anyone can deny the amount of bravery and honor it took for Ariana and her team to go out there and perform in the same city where unfathomable devastation happened, all in light of showing the world that love always wins. I don't I don't care if you were put on this earth to be a lifelong hater. You cannot deny how heroic that was. She was heroic in that. But now that we are almost a decade out from that time, I look back on this, her tweets, this Scooter Braun interview, footage from the show, and my heart aches for her. I don't know if it was the right thing to make her do all of that in the wake of that trauma. Because she too was hurting. She too was probably terrified that something else could happen at this show. But because she's this public figure, we did not allow her the time and space to process. She had to carry the weight of all of our grief to take on the responsibility of performing for us. And it feels it feels a little sick. It feels so exploitive, so inhumane. And yes, obviously she agreed to this, but I can assume that there was a lot of pressure on her plate to keep going in spite of the reality being that she didn't want to. I just I don't think that was fair to her. And it is clearly such a huge part of the trauma she still carries today. And I think one of the main cruxes again shaping her relationship to fame. After this, Ari finishes up the rest of her tour in August of 2017 and immediately goes into creating her fourth album, Sweetener. I'm tired. Shout out Sweetener, though. We love Sweetener. I know. I'm like halfway through. Okay. Just, you know what, tall you listening, just grab a sip of water. Okay. I got a lot more to go. A little stretch. Okay, but really, shout out Sweetener. One of like maybe my like top three. I love Sweetener. For those that are really curious, Goodnight and Go is my favorite Ariana Grande song of all time. Okay, but we can find in the comments if you disagree. I think that this album really solidifies the type of artist Ariana Grande is. Obviously a vocalist, yes, one of the best in our generation, but also as a producer. She works on this album with Pharrell, super active in the songwriting. And the layers and all of the ad libs that she adds to these songs. There's like a clip from one of the behind-the-scenes making of the Sweener album where she's like talking to Pharrell and she's like, Wait, can I add one more ad lib? And like I guess the program that they use to create it literally maxed out. Pharrell was like, No, we literally cannot add another ad lib. Sorry. Oh my God. You've seen those videos of her like in the studio. Like it's fascinating to see. Like you really do see just a small snippet of like the creative genius that goes in her mind when she's crafting her songs. It's no one doing it like her, you know? But on the Sweetener album, there is a song called Better Off. And based off the lyrics, fans speculate that the relationship between her and Mac is starting to waver. Basically, the song is I'm better off without him. And in 2018, the two confirm their breakup. There is a lot of speculation, and all of this is allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, but people theorize that Mac's drug addiction was a big reason as to why the two decided to part ways. Okay. I have to say it. I have to say it. Following this breakup, she has this fucking crazy whirlwind rebound relationship with Pete Davidson. Didn't you dress up? Oh yeah. Yeah, I did. I hope she's not mad at that. What year? Do you remember what your Halloween costume? No, it was not a Halloween costume. It wasn't. Arians is talking about me and Lou dressing up as Ariana Grande and Pete Davidson, like one of their paparazzi pictures. We wore that to her thank you next concert. Okay, okay. So I post like a picture on my Instagram. Link it in the show notes. I will. I will. What a time though. Oh my God. Honestly. 2018. So she was like 25 at this point. This is the thank you next period, which was her album following Sweetener. Um, and we'll get to that in a bit. But most unhinged era. Okay. Paparazzi was all over the place with pictures of her. She was just, she was outside. You know what I mean? So getting some sun. Yeah. You know? But we all know what it's like to be in our mid-twenties. And especially in the aftermath of Manchester and a public breakup and being the biggest pop star in the world, she went off. Okay.

    Speaker 4: 33:56

    Yeah.

    Speaker 3: 33:56

    So yes, she's in this highly publicized relationship with Pete Davidson, kind of like flaunting it. I mean, we know what we're all like after a breakup. You know, she and Pete have like this really intense romance. They get engaged after like four months of dating. Okay. It's, it's, it's unhinged, okay? But yeah, I think part of it was just like wanting to distract herself with the next thing. I don't know. But following the news of Ari's engagement, we hear the news that on September 7th, 2018, Mac Miller passes away from a drug overdose. Mac or Malcolm, this beautiful soul, this musical genius, is lost to the world. And in the wake of everyone's mourning for this incredible musician, people point fingers immediately to Ariana as the cause of his spiral and ultimate death. These are just a few of the tweets that were thrown at Ariana after the news broke out. You did this to him. I can't believe this. You should feel absolutely sickened. Treat him like dog shit, threw him to the curb like he was nothing. And I mean, I don't care what anybody says, I'm 100% blaming this on you. And it just goes on and on and on. Crazy insane. Things got so bad that she turned off her comments. Then one week after his death, she took to her Instagram to post a never-before-seen video she took of Mac at what appears to be a dinner, and he's in the middle of telling this funny story. And her caption reads, I adored you from the day I met you when I was 19, and I always will. I can't believe you aren't here anymore. I really can't wrap my head around it. We talked about this so many times. I'm so mad, I'm so sad, I don't know what to do. You were my dearest friend for so long. Above anything else, I'm so sorry I couldn't fix or take your pain away. I really wanted to. I I don't know what to say. It is the most fucked up thing I've ever heard. It's I don't know what to say. Like, what do you mean? You know, like the pain of losing Mac or Malcolm, as she calls him, is something that follows her always. I don't think anyone who has lost a partner ever gets over that grief. You just carry it with you forever. And you see it constantly in her art. Lyrics that resemble his songs, sounds of his laugh hidden in her music. Even now on this last album, Petal, she has a song called Stay, which is a callback to one of Mac's songs. At the height of her grief, though, she enters another era, her thank you next era. She breaks up with Pete, and it's straight into promoting this new album. And again, she is everywhere. Ellen, Jimmy Fallon, music videos, SNL. She headlines Coachella, she goes on radio shows and podcasts and long form interviews, and she goes on the Sweetener Think You Next World Tour. This is where I wore my outfit. And in almost every single appearance, no matter what, she breaks down, she is publicly crying mid-song or mid-interview. She cannot keep it together. There is so much that she is clearly going through. She is actively grieving Mac. And yet she cannot take a break because again, she is a star and she must perform for her audience. At the Billboard's Women in Music Award show, she gives an acceptance speech for the 2018 Woman of the Year. And she says, I find it interesting that this has been one of the best years of my career and like the worst of my life. And to cope with all of this, while touring and living this fast-paced lifestyle, she kind of becomes unrecognizable. I I know, obviously, I know, that Ari gets so much flack for trying to reinvent herself constantly, changing her hair, her tan levels, even her way of speaking. It's something that is constantly critiqued about her. She was on a lot of antidepressants and drinking on them. She was getting a lot of filler in her face. And the costume of Ariana Grande became more and more extravagant and elaborate and almost absurd. Yeah. And this is just my opinion. But I think when you are deeply afraid of facing yourself, you will do anything to avoid it. And I think this is what was happening with her at the time. She says in a get ready with me feature for Vogue that for a lot of her life, beauty was hiding for her. She wanted to hide behind the makeup and the clothes and the hair, anything to escape the critique of her real self. You

    Speaker 3: 39:50

    know what else is a really good distraction? Falling in love and getting married.

    Speaker 2: 39:56

    Yep.

    Speaker 3: 39:57

    So, ladies and gentlemen, we enter her positions era. At the start of 2020, Ariana starts dating Dalton Gomez, an LA-based real estate agent, very unknown, not famous. Curious. I think a lot of her fans are thinking maybe this will be good for her, right? Someone who can ground her. We honestly don't know a lot about this relationship. I think Ariana probably learned a lot from her past. So they were relatively private. We just got some really fucking cute pics of them together on her Instagram. This was also entering the pandemic and quarantine. So I think this was probably just a really cozy time in her life. And I think that was probably why that relationship was as strong as it was, because she was grounded and centered in one place. Literally, she was at home. Yes. Yes, exactly. She and Dalton get engaged and married in 2021. In this era, her style is a lot more refined and soft and feminine. It seems that with her time away from the public eye, she has an opportunity to reset. And the result is this very mature Ari, kind of like composed and just elevated a little bit, not as chaotic. But Baby Girl was put on this earth to be a star. She is not resting for long. Enter her Wicked era. Wait, Wicked was right after that? Yeah. What? Yeah, she got casted for Wicked in like 2021, I think. I think she had mentioned that she was already like auditioning in the middle of the Thank You Next tour. Whoa. And she was like, wait, if this is gonna happen, I might have to can't like she was that adamant on getting this role. She was like, I will literally change my entire next four years to focus on this. So yeah, she got Wicked, like I think she was working on Wicked in the middle of the pandemic. So we all know that Ari lends her dream role as Glinda in the Wicked films. And I know there's a million think pieces on this. I also did a wicked story last Halloween, episode 33, if you want to watch or if you want to listen. 33 like her age. So I won't talk about this too much, but to summarize this very quickly, I think this was an incredibly healing time in Ari's life. I think she found a way to connect to her inner child. I think through Glinda, she was able to let out a lot of the frustrations in what it meant to be a public figure and bear the responsibility of the millions. I think it was a way for her to love and accept both the good and the bad within her. But we can't have too much of a good thing. What the hell? Nope. Because in 2023, Ari gets the biggest, biggest cancellation of her entire career. That year, she announces her divorce from Dalton after two years of marriage, and reports state that she is now in a relationship with fellow wicked castmate Ethan Slater, who was up until recently also married with a young child. Obviously, no one knows the full truth and specific dates of when everything ended and started. And even though many wicked cast members have denied the narrative circulating around, this podcast, again, has never been focused on gossip and hearsay. We are here to talk about emotions. Yep. But I will acknowledge that two marriages ended, a young family is separated, and Ari was completely and utterly crucified for it. Enter Eternal Sunshine Era. This okay, I know I've like shouted out albums before. This is my favorite album of hers ever for many reasons. One, no skip. But two, the things that she sang. About show so much awareness and growth. And she really does break that fourth wall. Like, she is singing about being famous, and she is singing about being this public figure, which is like a little unusual. It's hard to relate to, but I do think that it is her truth. And that's what she felt called to sing about. She gives us insight into the dissolution of her marriage. She struggles with forming an identity, her frustration with boundaries and the difficulty of separating your actual life from the stories other people create about you. And that brings us to the Eternal Sunshine Tour. We we finally got here. I think we started recording an hour and a half ago. We're here. We did it. We did it. We made it. Don't worry. I still got like two more pages left to read to you.

    Speaker 3: 44:55

    So on June 9th, 2026, your girl, me, had the honor of a lifetime attending the Ariana Grande concert on her Eternal Sunshine Tour. Magical night, surrounded by Arianators everywhere. I literally would just like strike up conversations with strangers, felt so like loved, welcomed. It was just a great place to be. And I was crying on and off throughout the whole thing for many different reasons, but one of them is because this show was just like cinematically beautiful. Shout out her director, Christian Breslauer, for collabing with Ari and creating this gorgeous storyline. So the concert was split in five acts, and in between each act was this pre-filmed interlude, right? So she's like changing her costumes, whatever, they're they're playing this like little video. And just as a quick recap, the concept of the Eternal Sunshine album was inspired by the 2004 movie Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. And the idea is you have the option to undergo a procedure that erases all of your memories in pursuit of relieving your pain. But of course, you realize that by erasing your pain, you also erase your joy. And therefore, you choose to live with and appreciate both. That's like the whole thing. Beautifully said. Thank you. Thank you. And so the interludes basically kind of show this again. Very similar to the We Can't Be Friends music video, which is what I covered in episode 33. Destroyed me. Destroyed Arns. We see Ari in this kind of run-down house that's flooding. And we can assume this house was a reflection of her state of mind or her trauma flooding through her. And she's offered this procedure. And as she's journeying through her memories, she meets her younger self. So I am going to show Arnes a compilation of all these interludes. Shout out TikTok. Thank you so much. I will link this in the show notes. It's about 10 minutes, but I think it's I think it's worth it that we watch the whole thing.

    Speaker 2: 47:09

    It's so fun, right? So fun, so funny.

    Speaker 3: 47:13

    Yeah. She's an actress. Okay. So just to break down what these interludes show, the first interlude opens up with Ariana in the bathroom brushing her teeth when all of a sudden her house is completely flooded. And as I was like reading through some of the comments on that TikTok that I just showed you, someone commented and was like, as a psychologist, this is so fascinating to watch because it's like the flood are these memories or these flashbacks or these traumas that can come flooding into the mind at the simplest of times, such as brushing your teeth. So in this interlude, she's running through the house trying to escape the water, but then she falls basically into this labyrinth and she is offered this opportunity to go through the memory erasure procedure. And as she does that, she wakes up in this gorgeous garden filled with millions of flowers. And in this garden, she sees a small girl with curly hair swinging on the swings. For those of you that don't know, Ariana Grande's natural hair is super curly. And she talks about like not really allowing people to see her natural hair because it's like a protective thing for her to kind of keep that to herself. I love that. So Ariana comes up to the little girl and they have a conversation as Ariana gets into the swing next to her. Do you come here often? The little girl asks Ariana. No, it's been a while. How about you? Yeah, I come here every day. They spend the rest of the day together watching The Wizard of Oz back at Ari's haunted looking house, just like little Ari did all the time growing up, watching this beloved movie. And then older Ari and Baby Ari walk through the hallways of older Ari's mind. And we see baby Ari leading the way as they pass by different medical rooms, each with a different version of Ari getting her memory erased. We see Ariana in her honeymoon era, this innocent teen with her fifty style dress and half updo. We see her in her one love Manchester outfit, the big crew neck sweater, the jeans, the black stiletto boots. We see her during her sweetener era, the era that she lost Mac. And then we stumble into an empty room, presumably ready for this current version of Ari to get her procedure. But instead, baby Ari closes the door and they keep walking. There's another interlude where current Ari basically decides that she does not want this procedure, so she cancels it. And the final interlude at the very end of the show is two people sitting on a bench. One of them is baby Ari and the other is grey-haired Ari. And in the middle is an empty seat between them. Then we see current Ari walk up to them and sit in between while they rest their heads on one another. But I don't know that there's much to say about like what we just witnessed. Obviously, this is someone who has accepted all of the painful things that have happened in her life and is still probably very much in the process of healing and growing from all of that. And that is just one of the reasons why I cried throughout this show, just watching this journey unfold. Surprisingly, there's another point where I like really start crying, and that's when she sings the song One Last Time. Which is like, I I was really surprised at myself for this because One Last Time is kind of one of her bops. Like it's like it's kind of a catchy song, but it got me so bad. And I think it was just the magnitude of watching her perform with such joy again. Like she's doing her little choreo, she's dancing, she's smiling. And I don't know if it was like the happiness and sadness in me coexisting at the same time, thinking maybe this might be the one last time I see her on the stage again. In spite of the grief, the trauma, the scrutiny, and the moments when she had every reason to step away, she keeps choosing art. It's like she cannot walk away from this because she needs to sing and she needs to create music the way that she needs to breathe. And uh this journey of hers has brought her so much pain and so much hate and so much trauma, but she still continues to show up and look for joy and look for healing and look to spread love and happiness and kindness. Singing and expressing herself has always seemed less like a career she chose and more like something she was destined to do. A language she's always known how to speak. Maybe she has more control over that language now, and maybe she gets to decide when, where, and how she shares it. I just hope she knows that no matter where this life takes her next, I will be one of the millions wishing her nothing but the best.

    Speaker 1: 52:57

    I think that's a perfect way to segue into mine, which is the premise of mine being like, like I'm I'm about to summarize my story. Uh appreciating her art and artistry. I imagine that's all she wants from us. Like at the end of the day, like it's about her and her art and what she's creating. And we're just here to witness it. I mean, I I do want to say thank you for putting that together. I know you were nervous and you told Ninz told me separately on our chat, like, I feel such a responsibility to write this, but you did such a beautiful job. And I hope that anyone listening who doesn't know much about Ariana Grande that they now have insight into everything so that when they see the stuff on the news, there is an empathetic lens through which they can see it all. Exactly. I think you you did such a great job. You did it. I don't know. You did it. I'm

    Speaker 1: 54:05

    gonna start off with a disclaimer. I am an Ariana Grande fan, but I am not a stan. Before you crucify me, I don't know. You know, I don't I just yeah, she's just named after her. I yes. Do I enjoy her music? Do I enjoy her music? Yes.

    unknown: 54:24

    Yeah.

    Speaker 1: 54:25

    Do I appreciate the fact that my first name, my my legal first name is spelled exactly the same way. So once she became famous, suddenly everyone started spelling my name correctly. Of course I appreciate. I will one when I meet her in person one day, I that's the per like, thank you so much for existing for that reason. You made my life easier. But unlike Ninz, I don't know everything. I don't know everything about Ariana Grande. So before you call me a fake fan, this is me covering my ass. Okay. But with that said, like, you know we love to yap. So there's still gonna be a little context. I'm gonna find a way to talk. She's not a stan, she's a scholar. Oh yeah. Okay, so like I mentioned earlier, it was my anniversary last week. I've been married to my husband for eight years, but we've been together for almost 20. Next year. Oh. 20 years. Can you believe that? Because I'm because I'm 20. Weird. So strange. So my husband, for those of you who don't know me in real life, my husband has two little sisters. And after spending more than half of my life embedded in his family, his sisters are my sisters. We grew up together. So, what did that look like? During every family vacation, which of course I was there, we were holed up in our hotel room. Didn't matter if it was 80 degrees outside and our hotel room was on the beach. We're fucking watching TV. What were we watching? iCarly. Shout out Jeanette McCurdy. Love her. Love her memoir. I'm glad my mom died. I was also watching Sweet Life of Zack and Cody. I know this is so, oh man, it's so below you. I'm like so gross. I know this. It's almost embarrassing for you to have to listen to this. I was trying to figure out who A was. Yep. You know, for the third time. So we were watching Sweet Life of Zack and Cody, Sweet Life on Deck. Good luck, Charlie. Have you did you over your fucking head? Over my head. Love it. Love it.

    Speaker 3: 56:28

    Shout out Lizzie McGuire. That was more my era. That was like 10 years before this. I told you. Yeah.

    Speaker 1: 56:34

    Green fast. Yeah. Yeah. And then, of course, none other than Victorious. You mentioned this already, but Victorious was my fucking dream premise. Did you ever really watch it? Okay. So, like you said, Victoria Justice, she goes to this performing arts high school, and she and all her friends are so fucking talented. They can all sing. I mean, crazy. And, you know, we're not, we're not getting into Dan Schneider. I would call the show Genius, but we we're not fucking going there today. No Dan Schneider here. This is a safe space, cozy, safe podcast. So anyway, I remember watching Victorious, and one of my favorite characters, of course, Cat Valentine. I know there's a lot of controversy around how Dan Schneider I hate to say his name again, how he was kind of infantilizing and at the same time sexualizing Ariana Grande. That aside, I was just vibing with this character. I don't know if you so her laugh was so great. Like I was like, this is crazy. But but the real reason I was a fan, because I get chills remember like the first time I fucking heard her sing on this show. I think we were like in a hotel somewhere, and she's she burst out into song, and I was floored. Because everyone on Victorious is talented. Everyone's a singer, but my fucking girl, I was like, immediately looking, Ariana Grande. Like, yeah, she's a fucking singer, you know? So that was kind of my first taste of Ariana Grande. And then in the years that followed, when I'm watching her meteoric fucking rise, she's a living legend, you know, Unreal Vocalist, already like fucking Whitney and Mariah, you know, we're not surprised. We're not surprised. So fast forward, fast forward to present day, because uh, if you want to know what happens in between, you can listen to an in segment. So I am a casual fan. Like most of the world, I am well aware of her countless singles. I've watched the ups and downs and the sheer trauma of her personal life unfold on this global stage. But again, as a casual fan, I don't know enough about her life or career or who she is as a person to feel comfortable interpreting her music through that lens. So today I just want to talk about Ariana Grande from the point of view of someone who just appreciates her music and how it makes me feel. So, speaking of point of views, we're gonna get right into it. Okay. We're just gonna do it. Okay. I want to start with the song because POV is the one Ariana Grande song that makes me cry without fail every fucking time I listen to it. But let me backtrack though, a little more cuckoo-ka context. So, of all of Ariana Grande's albums, Positions is by far the one I'm most familiar with. It came out, as you said, during peak pandemic. So you know I had it on repeat. And I've always just been drawn in general to music that's a little bit more chill. So so that kind of chill pop vibe, plus the fact that we were literally on lockdown and I had my thoughts to keep me company, and that's it. It meant that positions very quickly became my most listened to album of 2020, and I'm pretty sure 2021, too. And it is for this very reason that the last song on the album, POV, hits so hard because okay, we're just gonna, you know what, we're just gonna do it. We're just gonna do it. Why am I talking?

    Speaker 3: 01:00:25

    Let's just listen. I've never heard the song before, so I'm really excited to hear it for the first time. Well, it's by this artist. Her name's Ariana Grande. If you haven't heard of her.

    Speaker 2: 01:00:35

    Do you want me to sing it too while we play it? No, you've never heard of her. So you wouldn't know it. That's a good song. Yeah. Again, her name's Ariana Grande.

    Speaker 1: 01:00:47

    I'm gonna add that to my one playlist. Yeah. I forgot to say, Crybabies, please, if you haven't had the pleasure of listening to this song, please look it up. I'll we'll link it in the show notes, obviously. So the moment that I first heard P.O.B, it ruined me, as it does every listen. In this song, Ariana Grande is essentially saying to the person who loves her, I want to love me the way that you love me. I love to see me from your point of view. And this just, as you can see, always fucking gets me because we all have this fantasy thrust upon us about being with a person who loves you for who you are, as she sings, for all of my pretty and all of my ugly too. But what we don't talk about is what that desire is rooted in, which is this wish to love ourselves as deeply as someone else might love us. I mentioned earlier that I've spent the last almost 20 years in a relationship with one person. I know, crazy.

    Speaker: 01:01:52

    And yes, so weird. You wouldn't know what it's like.

    Speaker 3: 01:01:56

    You we're like on only 16 years. Yes. So these next four get ready.

    Speaker: 01:02:04

    I'm trying to tell a story here. You already talked for an hour and a half. Let me have my moment.

    Speaker 1: 01:02:10

    So while we are now completely different people from who we were, the teenagers we were, the 14-year-olds at the beginning of our relationship, we've grown together, which is the only reason why it still works. But the thing about entering a relationship when your prefrontal cortex is literally still fucking forming, is that there comes a point where your partner's love can only get you so far. There came a point where I had to face the fact that as amazing as it was to have someone else love me the way I deserve to be loved, I didn't love myself the way I deserved to be loved. And that has been the absolute pinnacle of my healing journey. Learning that the best kind of love I can give to others, to my partner, to now my child, is an overflow of the love I have for myself. And in POV, Ariana Grande sees that and she realizes that what she wants isn't actually for someone else to love her unconditionally, that fantasy that's thrust upon us. What she really wants is to love herself unconditionally. We talk a lot on this podcast about how the way we relate to art is based on where we are in our lives. And POV by Ariana Grande will forever mark the period in my life where I finally saw how desperately I needed to love myself, where I finally opened my eyes to the fact that that's what had been missing this whole time. That's why I kept running on empty. I want to trust me the way that you trust me, because nobody ever loved me like you do. I'd love to see me from your point of view. All that perfectionism we feel, the self-criticism, the doubt, the need for control, the lack of self-trust, the lack of self-forgiveness, those are all just the many ways in which we withhold love from ourselves. And in this song, there is no resolution necessarily, but there is recognition. And with that recognition, there's hope because the healing has to start somewhere. So

    Speaker 1: 01:04:32

    clearly, positions came out six years ago. What about pedal? You're right, crybabies, I'm getting there. But again, I'm not a stan, I'm just a fan. So when I suddenly jump into pedal, skipping the six years in between, I am simply appreciating the art of an artist through the lens of my own life experience. Cannot say it enough. Okay, pedal. We're just doing it. So when Nin so lovingly reminded me to listen to pedal, do I even want to get into this story? I actually okay, you know what? I'm gonna fucking do it. I accidentally got really fucking high. And I was like, this is it. This is the moment I'm going to listen to pedal. Finally. So I pulled up our chat where you said, quote, when you listen to pedal, just know that the entire thing is about her relationship to fame and the public. And I swear to God, y'all, I listen, you know, the first track. It's like quiet. Yeah. And I was like, oh my God. Let me tell you, I threw up. It was crazy. It was crazy. I really did throw up. I'm not like, I'm not just not because of the song. No, no, no, no. I I threw up right before I started listening. I'm not gonna do that. Okay. We're not gonna do it. It was too crazy. Okay. So that's pretty much the only context that I have and had, you know, going into this listen. I do want to pause here and shout out our girl Shay on TikTok from at Is It the Right Word? I love her. We will link her account in the show notes as well as many videos because she does such an incredible job. And Ninz, shout out to Ninz for putting me on her. Shay does such an incredible job breaking down, at least most recently, the discourse around Ariana Grande and Petal with so much clarity and empathy, which again is all we fucking care about on this podcast. She has this whole Ariana Grande series that Ninz also sent to me, which we will again link and it kind of deep dive, what, like an hour long, like deep dive into our six, a six-part video series. But once Pedal dropped, Shay published this really thoughtful video about the backlash Ariana Grande received from the public around her physical appearance in the pedal music video. And of course, all of this being speculation, you know, we're obviously not entitled to information about what's going on in her personal life. But as Shay mentions in her video, if it is in fact true that Ariana Grande is suffering from an eating disorder, then the best course of action, if you really did care about her as a fan, is to lovingly embrace her decision to take a hiatus and to wish her all the best and hope she's using this time to heal. And that's it. Like we have talked about on this pod in the past, we as humans are not meant to experience this level of fame and visibility. Our nervous systems are not hardwired for this level of pressure and scrutiny. Even the strongest, most resilient of us would succumb to the pressures. So we know this, we should know this, and yet the public is so quick to disregard the humanity of these global figures. But at the end of the day, they too are humans who deserve our fucking empathy, especially when the fame and the pressure and the toxicity result in these mental health conditions.

    Speaker 2: 01:07:59

    So pedal.

    Speaker 1: 01:08:03

    As a whole, lots of anger, justifiable for obvious reasons. But what I love at least is it's in this empowering, like fuck you kind of way. Big vibes. She's not holding back. And she has every right to burn these motherfuckers to the ground. With that said, it feels like there's this undercurrent of, you know, I am chaos, and instead of judging myself for it, I'm embracing it. So I am going to quickly name some of the songs that gave me some feelings before I get into the song that gave me the feelings. Crybabies, I am not gonna get into these songs in detail. Otherwise, we'd fucking be sitting here for hours. I'm just gonna name the tracks in case you wanna pause here and listen to them yourself. And then I'm also gonna like throw in some lyrics that we'll play. Okay, okay. Some food for thought. Okay. Kiss me. Yeah, I know uh I forgot to mention we're gonna sing every song too. Yeah. Let me vocalize really quick. I'll be right back. Okay. So lyrics. Food for thought. Kiss me like you know this is goodbye. We could try to make it all the way out. Grab me like my life is on the line. We decide to make it all the way out. And that's all I'm gonna say. While she's high as hell, you know. I was so scared. I was like, what's happening? It's so loud. But once I listen to it sober, great, great, okay. Stay. I just wanna stay this time. But can you keep me safe this time? Oh well. I have a couple of quotes from this one. Good things can replace dysfunction and obsession. I'll meet my own needs, though you've been trying to. Let's see who I can be without you. Freak. All of the human life I've dreamt of will be real. If I start over, how will it feel? Warning signs. You don't deserve me. You know you don't. You never have. But I want you to feel me. I wish someone could hear me.

    unknown: 01:10:19

    I could.

    Speaker 1: 01:10:21

    I could cry. I could cry. Okay. So now, just like the way the positions album ends with P.O.V., the last track, Nowhere Nobody messed me up. I knew it. I knew it. How could it not? I knew it. How could it not? You knew what I was gonna fucking come on here and say. So we're just gonna stop and we're gonna listen to it together. Uh just like with P.O.V.

    Speaker 2: 01:10:51

    I will cry. So you've been warned. Miss Ariana, what are you doing?

    Speaker 1: 01:11:02

    So on the surface, Nowhere Nobody sounds like some sort of escapist fantasy. Almost like this love affair where all she wants is this one night with this person. But really, it's a song for herself. Her inner child. When Ariana Grande says, deep breaths, honey, there's no more running. The image that comes to mind is her kneeling down in front of her inner child, telling her it's okay. In POV, Ariana sings, I wanna love me the way that you love me. I wanna trust me the way that you trust me. And in Nowhere Nobody, not only has she finally found and accepted this self-love that she's always deserved, but she's the one bestowing it. She's the one saying, Deep breath, Sunny, weave at least till morning, because there's nowhere, nobody else I'd rather be with. Maybe it's fleeting, but in this moment she has herself and she loves herself, and that's all she needs. I know nowhere nobody means something entirely different when seen through the lens of Ariana Grande's own life, all the trauma and the pain she's endured in her own healing journey. But at the end of the day, she is an artist and I'm an observer connecting with her art, finding love and meaning and a mirror in it. Because when I pause and look at my own life's journey, I realize that I am no longer the girl wanting so desperately to love herself. I'm the one doing it.

    Speaker 2: 01:12:58

    I think that was such a beautiful what is the word? P.O.V. Yeah. A beautiful POV of that.

    Speaker 3: 01:13:10

    That struck my mind too. Like I remember watching this TikTok video of someone like breaking down Nobody Knowhere. And it was like, because there is a trend on TikTok right now with that song, and it's basically showing clips of like you and your partner. And someone was, you know, breaking down like media literacy is dead because this song is not about, you know, it's like, yeah, but you know, it could be art art can be interpreted in so many different ways. For me though, I was like the second I Yeah.

    Speaker 1: 01:13:46

    And maybe that's the same. And I was the same. Maybe that's just where we are in our journeys. But it was Yeah.

    Speaker 3: 01:13:54

    I feel like we might be correct. Just given the context of the album and like all this, all of the themes of like her learning to rely on herself and her kind of in this strange dichotomy of like I need to create art, but I know that it comes with all of these stipulations. It makes sense given that context, what that song means. Yeah.

    Speaker 3: 01:14:21

    I think that when we cover things on our show and we talk about the healing journey and we talk about the messages, the universal messages that it offers. I like the way you phrased this particular song as like a snippet in time, right? Because in this moment, on this particular evening, she has found what she's looking for. But the reality of life is that we are never fully healed. We never finish healing. And so, yes, this can be an anthem of finally finding that self-love, but I don't think she's done.

    Speaker 4: 01:15:06

    No.

    Speaker 3: 01:15:07

    I am not done. You are not done. I just really hope that she finds a period in her life where she can focus on that without having to deal with the excess noise of what everyone else has to say. We all deserve that. That's what you and I have the privilege of being able to do. I just wish people were kinder to her.

    Speaker 1: 01:15:32

    Kinder in general. Yeah. The world would be a different place if we all just took some time to learn a little bit about someone who we might have some opinions on and open our minds to being changed. Yeah.

    Speaker 3: 01:15:49

    Yeah. She is so many things, but I think Amir is so spot on. I think that she lives her life and we react to it based off of what's going on in ours. And oftentimes it's really harsh. Yeah. I feel like today we talked about so many like heavy things. And I don't want that to be like the lasting feeling because at the end of it, she's still like this really incredible musician, like so talented, so funny, so magnetic.

    Speaker 1: 01:16:27

    That's kind of why I love this album, why I love Pedal, because there's so much of this in this moment, I have this thing. And that's all we have. You know, that idea of time being a construct. We don't actually have the past or the future. It just lives on in us. What we actually have is right now. And there is something really terrifying about that, and also so beautiful because that's why we come onto this earth to have these fleeting human experiences. And she captures that in all of these lyrics. And when I think about the healing journey not ever being finished and the demons that you've made friends with maybe coming back to resurface, like it's a little like it can be a little overwhelming to know that, like, oh man, it's really like it's really gonna be a lifelong thing. It's just gonna show up dressed differently, and it's just gonna be another evolution. It's just gonna it's gonna be the same, the same thing that we're facing, just looking different. And that's kind of scary. Like, yeah, it is.

    Speaker 3: 01:17:42

    It's like it's scary and it's daunting, and it makes you almost just wanna throw in the talents. Exactly. And that's why it's so beautiful when you don't when she just keeps doing it.

    Speaker: 01:17:54

    When she keeps doing it, when all of us listening, all the people who find a mirror in her keep fucking showing up for ourselves and keep loving ourselves through it all, no matter what the fuck anyone says about anything we have to do, like just fucking showing up for ourselves.

    Speaker 3: 01:18:09

    Like fuck, you know? Yeah. It's beautiful. It is beautiful. It is. Yeah. I think you captured why I cried like during what is she saying one last time? Because it's like, God, life has been so fucking hard for her, and she's still singing. She's still doing it. Yeah. For herself, yeah. You know, like, and that's like the most beautiful part. Because before, with all of the obligations that she had, it was almost like she knew she had an obligation to the public. But now I feel like her art is so centered on no, this is for me. Yeah.

    Speaker 1: 01:18:46

    I hope we can all find that. Whatever it looks like in our own lives, I hope we can all come back to that. Yeah. Maybe it's not as dramatic. Maybe it's not as much of a spectacle, but I mean, the feelings are the fucking same. The feelings are the fucking same.

    Speaker 3: 01:19:04

    Did we do it? I don't know. I like, am I done? Like, I'm just like, I'm so on edge.

    unknown: 01:19:13

    I don't know.

    Speaker 3: 01:19:14

    Well, thank you for indulging with me on this. My fucking pleasure.

    Speaker 1: 01:19:20

    Because I was like, oh man, like I'm only gonna talk about pedal, but something was telling me, like, no, I really want to talk about POV because I always cry. I know we're not, I know that's not in the news right now, and that's not what's popping. But and then when I wrote that part and then I listened to Nowhere Nobody again, I was like, oh, oh. I needed to write that. Yeah. So this would hit that much harder.

    Speaker 3: 01:19:43

    And the timing of like your anniversary. No, it's yeah. Please, you know, let's stop now. Yeah. Okay. Well, we talked a lot today. Our first two-hour episode. No, I bet it'll be like an hour 34-35. Ooh. I understood in that reference because physicians. Well, thank you so much to our crybabies. Thank you for also indulging with me because you know this is my favorite fucking topic. You knew it was coming. Yes. Thank you all so much. This was a lot of fun. Heavy? It was very heavy. But I was I feel like exhausted. No, I was uh I was hooked. You were you? Yeah, hanging on to every word. I hope you all were too. Yeah. Hope you learned something new. I hope you have formed a new, maybe deeper appreciation for this artist. And maybe that has opened up your heart to also show people more grace and kindness. Yourself included. All right. All right. Well, that's what we have for today. If you loved us and you want a sticker, you know what to do. You know what to fucking do. We will see you next time. Mm-hmm. But until then, Brb Crying.

Until next time…brb crying :’)

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